Chamber and committees

Good morning, minister, and good morning to your team. I want to look at something in relation to financial instruments that was in the draft bill and has been taken out. I know that you are working with the United Kingdom Government to use a section 104 order to extend the bill’s provisions. Can you tell us why it would not be appropriate for that to be in the bill and why you think that it has to be done through Westminster?

Can I push you slightly on that, minister? It is clear that, if you get four lawyers into a room, you get 12 different opinions, but there is a lot of legal opinion that including the provision would be competent. Could you give us a wee bit more information on why you have come to the view that it is not competent?

Good morning. I thank the minister and his team for coming along.

Will you detail the process for families who have a child who will turn six before the regulations to extend the age limit come into force? For example, a family could have their Scottish child payment award stopped if their child’s sixth birthday is in October 2022, and could have to reapply in November. That would obviously be difficult for a family, and it could also cause administrative issues. Has that matter been looked at? What is the solution?

Clearly, we will vote for the regulations. However, I think that it is worth putting on the record three points—one is procedural and the other two are with regard to these particular regulations.

First, I think—the minister will know this, because I used to make the same point when he sat on the Social Security Committee—that it is unfortunate that, because of the way that the procedure is set up, we are asked to vote on things immediately after we take evidence on them. We need to consider whether that allows proper scrutiny. There could have been things that the minister or we, as a committee, wanted to go back and reflect on, but we are asked to make a decision immediately. I think that there should be a week between regulations being discussed with Government ministers and their being voted on. I appreciate that that is not the minister’s responsibility and he may not want to comment on it, but I think that it is worth pointing out that there is a lack of scrutiny.

Secondly, with regard to the regulations that we are discussing, I heard what the minister said, but I still cannot quite understand why those who fall into the category of the October birthday could not simply be transferred automatically. I do not see the logic in the argument that, if somebody was suddenly going to be transferred, somebody else would not apply. I genuinely do not see that, and I worry that there will be people who drop off the system and miss out on money in that regard. That is a slight concern. We will have to wait and see what happens in practice.

The third issue is when the payments will actually be made, which I raised in my questions. It seems slightly strange to me that we are getting rid of the four-week guarantee for payment, which treats people with respect and dignity. I worry that the agency is moving away from that. We saw really quite a large delay over the summer, particularly with regard to the best start grant, in people getting their applications processed and getting money, where appropriate, put into their bank accounts. We have ADP being rolled out at the same time as well.

We have seen those delays, but I have not really been reassured by the minister or by Social Security Scotland that we are not going to see such delays again. We are approaching Christmas and it is going to be a difficult time for many individuals. I am concerned that the money will not appear in people’s accounts at the appropriate time. I hope that I am wrong. No doubt, we will come back to this and look at it once it has happened.

We welcome the policy development but, with regard to the practicality of delivering it, the Government could have been slightly more ambitious and slightly more open and willing to help those who already have the benefit to continue with it.

Finally, one of the regulations that you have not mentioned removes the requirement for SCP to be paid within four weeks of getting the application. The draft policy note from April says:

“often this deadline cannot be met due to the high volume of claims Social Security Scotland manage”.

That was back in April, and we are now nearly in November. Has the position changed? Are you confident that people will get the payment within four weeks of applying? With all due respect to Social Security Scotland, it is all very well getting a letter every two weeks, but people want money in their bank account. Why has that regulation gone? Why can you not guarantee payment within four weeks?

I have two questions, minister. First, the deputy convener has already referred to the consultation that is ending today, but, at the very start of all this, when you were looking at the Scottish child payment, why did you not go for a stand-alone benefit or a new benefit under the act?

Finally, minister, when the announcement was made, a Scottish Government document said:

“Given the large numbers of children forecasted to be newly eligible ... people applying for the first time might need to wait to get their award”.

What analysis have you done of how long people will have to wait, and what do you expect the process and time involved will be? I have to say that the message in that document seems to be slightly different from what you have told the committee today, minister. Is there going to be no delay? If there is going to be a delay, how long will it be?

I am not quite sure that I follow the logic of that, but so be it.

I have a second question. Can the minister give us a wee bit more information on what discussions he has had with Social Security Scotland about the number of staff that the agency has working at the moment, as well as the processes and procedures that are in place so that the Scottish child payment will be up and running appropriately? It has been estimated that 200,000 more children will qualify for the payment. Are you confident that there will not be delays, as there were over the summer with other benefits? Is an appropriate number of staff in place?

Thank you, minister, but I am slightly confused. If we know who those individuals are, given that they will be sent a text message, why cannot things automatically be rolled over? You know who the children are, because of when their birthdays are, and you will be sending their parents either a text or an email, so why is it not possible to say to all those individuals that they will continue to receive the benefit and that nothing will change?

Thank you.