Chamber and committees

On the issue of stability, a number of organisations have discussed on a number of occasions the ring fencing of funds for culture as being a way to protect or enhance their situation. What are your views on that?

You identify that the sector is managing and progressing and that there have been interventions, but some individuals who we have taken evidence from expressed fear and anxiety that things could not remain the same. The culture sector needs to adapt and has adapted. I talked about the resilience that we already have, but there could well be casualties, and people have indicated that casualties are occurring in some communities.

The issue is how to achieve a balance that ensures that we have this phenomenal world-leading sector that punches above its weight and all of that, which we have heard about time and again. Organisations can find financing from other sectors, support mechanisms and sponsorship, but the stability that the Government provides is vital. You must acknowledge that confidence in the Government has been dented by recent events.

£6.6 million is a considerable amount of money, and you have explained the funding process, Mr Munro. Thank you for that. The shock waves that you and the sector must have experienced when that decision was reversed and you found out that you were losing that money must have been considerable.

I commend you for at least managing to fill the gap; not filling it would have been a death knell to some of the sector, and you have identified that. Does it feel as though the sector is under attack, that it is expendable and that the Government does not see it as a priority? That appears to be the message that is being transmitted to your sector.

You talked about your sector’s success, which is to be commended, but how do you measure success when something such as this is thrown at you? It affects economic growth and the development of the sector. How can the sector progress when it is put in this life-or-death situation? You either survive or you do not, and if you had not put that money into the sector, some of the organisations would no longer exist by the end of this financial year.

You have made it very clear that the sector is in distress—we heard as much last week and from our guests in the previous session—and the reputation of the organisations that you represent is at risk and continues to be so. However, you have all been extremely and inherently innovative in managing the crises that you have faced, and your sector has diversified its income generation and its processes.

That said, there is still a mismatch between what you are trying to do and what the Government is saying and doing. Last week, I asked about the working groups, the strategies and the action plans that are in place, and I asked whether you were being listened to. I am sure that you are—indeed, I was told by the groups last week that you are—but you are being listened to at a time when one of your hands has been tied behind your back. Indeed, after recent events, it appears that both of your hands are tied behind your back.

We need to engage with how we go forward. We all want a long-term strategic approach, because we know that the sector brings in over £5 billion a year through its thousands of organisations and its tens of thousands of employees. They are at risk if you are at risk—and, at the moment, you are at risk. Where do you go in the future? How do your organisations attempt to recruit development roles for the future and, indeed, see that development happen? At the moment, you are stagnating and are living from hand to mouth. You all want to achieve—and you are all achieving. All of your organisations are punching above their weight—we get that—but the issue is the strategy that is required. There needs to be much more co-operation, which will mean understanding and respect. After all, without that respect, confidence in the culture sector will continue to be eroded. In fact, that confidence is being eroded every day—I can see that, and I know that you all feel it, too. It is about where we take the long-term strategic approach and how you develop the recruitment and development role to give yourselves a chance for the future.

You probably heard at last week’s meeting the talk about how Scotland “gets it” when it comes to culture. My stark review of what has been said is that Scotland does not get it, if this is how Creative Scotland is treated by the Government of the day.

The sector has bent over backwards to accommodate, be supportive and take on board many things, and it has been, and continues to be, innovative. It punches above its weight—we discussed that last week, as well—but it cannot maintain, sustain and retain if it does not know where things are going. It is quite obvious that, at the moment, the route plan is not available to your organisation or to the sector. How can you plan and progress if you do not have that?

There has been talk in the past about the central belt in Scotland seeming to receive the lion’s share of things. Do you think that that is the case? There are fantastic organisations the length and breadth of the country, but is the lion’s share of the resource, the manpower and the artistic and cultural involvement central belt-based?

It has been an excellent session. You have been candid about where you are in each of your organisations and how you feel. We have discussed long-term finances from local government, which is probably still the most significant funder of many aspects of the culture sector in Scotland, and you have talked about managing decline and fighting for survival. I had the opportunity to spend 18 years in local government—from 1999 to 2017—and during that time I said similar things when I was in that sector and was trying to manage where we were. Since I came here in 2016, the Scottish Government has come forward with action plans, strategies and working groups. I am sure that you have all participated in those, but it would be interesting to hear whether you feel that you have been listened to.

What is the future? From today’s meeting, it sounds quite bleak, in reality, but do your organisations see a way forward that you want to and can achieve? You have talked about other parts of the globe and things that are done differently. It has been said that we punch above our weight. I think that Liam Sinclair said that Scotland gets it and understands when it comes to culture, but there is obviously still a massive gap that we need to fill. How can we manage to fill that gap and continue to be world leading? There is no question but that we are world leading in many sectors. We are proud of that and our culture is a strong part of our identity in Scotland, but we need to see the future.

What is the future? Do you believe that you are actually being listened to and given opportunities among all the strategies, plans and working groups?

I have none, either, but I am delighted to return to the committee. I sat on its predecessor committee for three years in the previous session, so I look forward to our work, convener.

I will ask a supplementary question. You have talked about data, which is vitally important. Trade associations and federations might collect data for their sectors. How well do you manage with that? Some sectors are very proactive in ensuring that they have data for their sector, but others do not seem to have that robustness. It is about trying to manage that so that there is much better understanding. As you have identified, in different parts of the country, some federations and organisations are much more robust at putting that together.

The possibility of different things happening in different locations might become a real issue for the market and for suppliers and consumers, depending on the approach that is taken and how that is planned. It will be interesting to see what data you collate on that in the future.