Chamber and committees

So, officials were aware of the precise figures in November.

So why was it a surprise when the revised costs came out? Surely your officials should have had an idea that the costs were going to increase substantially.

You did not expect them to be revised, but did you ask for any—

I understand that it is zero point whatever of the budget, but given the pressure that Police Scotland is under, that will still have an impact. Do you have any estimates—

Okay. In March, I said to Mr Bunch:

“in September 2023, Police Scotland raised concerns ... Did it give you a figure at that point, or did you go back to Police Scotland and ask it to revise the costs and provide you with updated parameters, in effect?”

Mr Bunch replied:

“No. We did not know the figure until it was published as evidence to the committee.”—[Official Report, Finance and Public Administration Committee, 26 March 2024; c 21.]

It appears that you were not aware of any increase for a long time. You said that you asked your officials to interrogate the figures. When did you ask them to do that?

I will ask my last question. We have talked about increased costs—obviously, that discussion went on considerably. Do you have an estimate of the impact on front-line policing time that the changes will make, given that the costs have gone up because of additional training needs?

I might be being unfair, but I think that people who are watching these proceedings will find what has happened hard to understand. There has been a threefold increase in the costs, to £5 million. Officials were talking to Police Scotland and were aware that the figures were going to increase yet, in March, prior to giving evidence, they were still surprised by the level of the increase. Surely an approach should have been taken that at least gave you an idea of by how much the figures were going to increase. Surely you should have been engaging with Police Scotland on that. It sounds as though those figures were not interrogated and that not enough questions were asked.

Do you think that where we are now with the figures is acceptable? Have any lessons been learned by officials, or are there any lessons that you will ask Police Scotland to learn in relation to the disparity between the figures that it initially suggested and those that it submitted?

So, you are suggesting that the situation that has arisen is purely a matter of Police Scotland needing to revise how it considers such matters, rather than its being a result of its not having been provided with enough information to make the calculations accurately in the first place.

Should part of the interrogation process not have involved you saying to Police Scotland, “We appreciate that the costs are going to go up. By how much do you think they will go up? What parameters are you working within?” I appreciate that you can look at figures line by line when they come out and ask why that has happened, but given the extent of the increase, surely you should have done some work with Police Scotland to identify by how much the figures were likely to increase.

As far as you are aware, have reports and analysis been done on the outcomes or the success of commissioners in fulfilling their duties? Has a widespread piece of work been done on that?