Chamber and committees

Will Moy, I saw you nod your head. Would you like to add something?

Tracey Brown, I assume that you would like to come in on the “follow the science” comment.

I thank the panel members for their time this morning.

As soon as information was put into the public domain, it seemed that other experts suddenly sprang up trying to say exactly the opposite. We seemed to collect a deluge of data. How far are we able to collate that data and communicate that in the public domain in a way that can easily be consumed? A lot of data was put on to websites such as the FACTS or NHS Inform websites, but I am not sure how many people actually visited those websites. Were Governments behind the curve in their ability to combat misinformation? Will Moy, could you answer that?

My argument is that it took us too long. That is not a criticism of your Government or any Government in particular. I think that it took us too long to respond. As you know, we are now reviewing that response. There will be a report on that, and I suggest that that might be the time to consider how and whether we change the statute book.

Good morning, cabinet secretary and panel. I hope that you are on the mend, Mr Swinney.

You probably recognise that we do not agree on some of the provisions. I go back to the word “proportionality”, which is what exercises me on the bill. As you said, ministers will decide what proportionality is. I assume that you recognise that there is a level of subjectivity to that.

On safeguards and balances, parliamentary scrutiny is the main safeguard in such decisions. Do you acknowledge that, by introducing the bill, you basically bypass that?

I just note that I did not talk about all pupils—I said “many”. One issue that has been raised is that, for some people, the pandemic has deepened inequality in learning. There should perhaps be a focus on certain sections of society and pupils. However, thank you for that response, which was helpful.

I will transition to a point that has been raised with me and that relates to health. We know that roughly half of the Covid cases in hospital are patients who went in for another condition. The worry that has been raised with me is that there is still a reluctance among people to seek medical help because they are concerned about contracting Covid in hospital. What is the Scottish Government doing to ensure that that hesitation is overcome and to get people to seek critical medical help as soon as it is required? If people do not do so, that will put strain on the NHS due to later presentations.

Thank you, Mr Swinney—that is helpful. Contrary to what my colleague Mr Rowley said, the driving force is to make sure that we are prepared should this ever happen again. I want to focus on preparedness.

As you have said, you did not feel that the appropriate legislation was in place in March 2020 when it came before the Parliament for the first time. However, in my view, the Scottish Government should be focusing on preparedness for future health emergencies. For example, we should remember the Silver Swan initiative, which was run to test preparedness for eventualities such as Covid. We have discovered that the recommendations of that had been allowed to lapse. Having had that experience, would it not be more relevant to ensure that those recommendations and any further updated recommendations that are made following the pandemic are adhered to? Is that not the direction that we should take? It was the lack of preparedness that caused the main issues at the start of the pandemic.

I will push you on that. Again, I am looking back to see what an appropriate response would have been. I put it to you that we saw the pandemic coming—we watched it coming out of China and moving across the world. The fact is that we did not prepare properly or respond quickly enough. Surely that experience would change the way in which we are prepared and the measures that we put in place for the future. It would not be emergency legislation that would make the big change to outcomes.

I want to go back to education. I have a vested interest in the issue, given that one of my daughters is a teacher and another of my daughters is a pupil who transitioned from primary 7 during Covid and is now in second year. She has missed significant classroom time throughout the whole Covid experience. Despite the greatest efforts of teachers, for many pupils, online learning does not replace learning face to face. How does the Scottish Government propose to fill that gap in learning?

I have no interests to declare.