Chamber and committees

You have made them, and I am challenging you.

My final question concerns one of the questions that we asked the OECD on data collection and deployment, which is one of the important issues with regard to potential future pandemics—not just Covid-related data but data relating to the other conditions that we discussed earlier, with regard to their direction of travel.

We heard that, generally speaking, across the OECD countries, there is a lack of such data and that, having gathered data, we cannot disaggregate it to help to shape the way in which we tackle the health issues that are associated with Covid. I have talked many times about the fact that we do not have an IT structure that allows that to happen—few countries do. Do you agree that we should invest in that area, as a baseline?

Welcome, cabinet secretary. We know the cost of having dealt with Covid previously. You indicated to other members that, looking ahead, there is a budget that assumes further Covid spending. However, on dealing with the fallout of Covid, there is a cost associated with other conditions that were affected by the Covid restrictions. I refer to cancer, elective surgery, mental health, obesity and physical fitness, for example. We know that to be true, which is why I was interested in your last answer to John Mason. Will the Covid recovery budget reflect our ability to deal with that fallout from Covid? It will inevitably turn up somewhere in the ledger.

We wait with interest to see whether raising taxes actually puts more money into the budget.

I will go back to my original question, on the funding of treatment for non-Covid-related conditions during the Covid recovery. We know from data that those most affected by Covid and those who had the worst outcomes had other health conditions such as obesity, type 2 diabetes or heart conditions.

We are looking ahead and discussing the preventative agenda, as we prepare for future pandemics. From talking to the OECD, we know that it is not only us doing that: all Governments are dealing with what is in front of them at the moment and it can be difficult to look further ahead. Given what we know about the impact that Covid had on people with other conditions, would it not be prudent to start looking at how we can tackle Scotland’s poor record on health? The cabinet secretary knows that I am very interested in that subject. Would it not be prudent to start looking at how we can tackle that poor health record as we look ahead to future pandemics?

We agree on the outcomes that we want. Outcomes are important, but we currently have a poor report card for health compared to many countries in Europe. I was really exercised about this topic before Covid.

I agree that a lot of positive health outcomes will be tackled outwith the health service. Correct me if I am wrong—I am sure that you will—but I think that 44 per cent of our budget is now spent on health and there has been a reduction of 27 per cent in the local government budget. However, many of the interventions that are required to deal with the impacts of Covid will be dealt with by local government. How do you square that circle, cabinet secretary?

In relation to planning for the next pandemic, are you saying that we are being reactive and that Governments are looking at what is in front of them right now, rather than at what is coming down the line, so the whole preventative agenda has been parked? Do we need to try to lift our heads and look further down the track?

My last question on that subject is about the collection of data. Are we collecting the right data to be able to detail the impact of Covid not only on the population but on non-Covid-related conditions? Are we able to disaggregate the data to be able to plan ahead?

I said that the percentages of the budget had moved.

Good morning. I thank the witnesses for their evidence. I will follow on from my colleague’s line of questioning. We understand the front-line cost of dealing with Covid—we know what the investment in that was—but I am interested in the spending required for the fallout from Covid.

We know that the cost of Covid was higher because of our poor health report card. A lot of people who suffered from Covid and tragically lost their lives were dealing with other issues, such as obesity, type 2 diabetes and heart conditions. However, in dealing with Covid, we had to drop our focus on such conditions. Should OECD countries prioritise conditions such as long Covid and non-Covid-related diseases and other issues that were affected by Covid restrictions, such as cancers, elective surgery, mental health issues, obesity and physical fitness? Will we need to reinvest in addressing those conditions as we deal with the fallout from Covid?