Chamber and committees

I ask everyone to bear in mind that we are discussing hunting with dogs. I fear that our discussion has grown arms and legs, and I would like us to focus on the bill.

Jim Fairlie and Alasdair Allan would like to ask supplementary questions.

You want a flexible approach. This is not specifically about RSPB Scotland’s ethical stance on predator control, but do you believe that birds on land that is managed by organisations or individuals who take that ethical approach are at a disadvantage in that they are more likely to be predated because the option of using dogs to flush out predators is not considered? Does that approach put those birds at a disadvantage?

I do not want to set up a battle between RSPB Scotland and anybody else, but are you suggesting that, although your aim is to protect birds, you are not actually protecting birds as much as you could, because you have taken an ethical stance on predator control, which we heard earlier in the meeting is not necessarily the best or most humane way to control foxes? Does your position mean that you are not protecting birds as well as you otherwise might?

I am sorry—I do not mean to be rude—but we need to focus on hunting with dogs. It is not just about people who are out walking their dogs. We need to be really careful. We could stray into a whole range of other matters. The question is very much about exceptions to the two-dog limit.

We move to section 8, which is on licensing. I call Jenni Minto.

Again, I am very aware of time, because we have only another seven minutes at most.

I have a very quick question, which will be directed to Ross and not to Duncan, because the RSPB does not use dogs for control. With regard to situations in which two dogs might be necessary for the purpose of environmental benefit, we have heard about exceptions, but it appears that there are few situations in which a licence will not be required, because there are few situations in which two dogs will be the most humane and animal welfare-minded way to flush foxes. There really are not exceptions. In my opinion, the licence is probably wrong, because we have heard that, in almost every situation in which dogs could be used, that will be more than two dogs. What are your thoughts on the two-dog limit and the licensing, which is for exceptions to that limit?

We will move on to sections 1 and 2, which cover offences.

Rachael Hamilton has a supplementary question.

Penny Middleton indicated that she would like to come in.

Does Ian Duncan Millar want to come in?