Chamber and committees

We have those points on record.

We will move on to questions from Jenni Minto on exceptions, which are covered by sections 3, 5, 6 and 7 of the bill.

Therefore, there is no evidence to show the difference between—

I see that Robbie Marsland would like to come in. Could you possibly also touch on the compensation question? Is there is any indication that the passing of the bill might be to the detriment of certain groups, and should there be compensation?

Someone having a licence is supposed to be the exception, if you like. Is there a danger that decisions on the number of dogs will be arbitrary? As you said, there is an argument that the two-dog limit is being brought in just to stop mounted packs. We want to stop the groups that go out and hunt for pleasure, and the way to do that is to reduce the number of dogs to two. That appears to be what has happened south of the border. We have heard today that there are very few, if any, occasions on which two dogs are used to flush foxes to guns.

In your review, you note Lord Burns’s observation regarding the death of foxes, the crux of which is that the precise cause of death is less important than the speed at which the death occurs. Death by dogs takes a matter of seconds, so it is the pursuit that is the main source of welfare concerns. Naylor and Knott’s research showed that using two dogs rather than a pack can actually result in an increased period of pursuit, so it would not seem logical in most cases.

I am still to find anybody who can tell me where using two dogs would be the most appropriate and animal welfare-minded way to flush foxes. Why should there be an arbitrary two-dog limit when there is no evidence to suggest that that is the most appropriate number of dogs for any work?

Certainly. It is strange that there are five set frequencies but some plants do not fit in with those.

I welcome everybody back to the meeting. I welcome to the meeting the Rt Hon Lord Bonomy, whose 2016 report made recommendations to improve the operation of the Protection of Wild Mammals (Scotland) Act 2002. With your permission, Lord Bonomy, we will move straight to questions. What is your overall assessment of the situation around hunting with dogs in Scotland, following your review in 2016?

Good morning, and welcome to the 20th meeting in 2022 of the Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee. I remind members to switch any electronic devices to silent.

We have received apologies from Karen Adam. We understand that Emma Harper will join us as a substitute after 10 am.

Our first item of business is a decision to take item 6 in private. Are we agreed?

Members indicated agreement.

Mr Marsland has suggested that there is no evidence that anyone is using two dogs to flush to guns.

It does not happen. Okay.

We will have a short supplementary from Jim Fairlie.

We are at the end of the session, but, if you would like to make another contribution, please feel free to do so.