Chamber and committees

That would not be ideal.

Indeed. There are two privately run prisons in the estate. What is your general view of the privately run prisons versus the publicly run prisons?

You will be aware that the Government has chosen to take HMP Kilmarnock back into—presumably—public service. We have struggled to get any justification for that decision, and the argument seems to be around cost. However, you said that we might not have full sight of all the detail that we need. Would you say that HMP Kilmarnock is currently good value for money? What is the situation there?

I understand, but when you go in there—in your independent neutral role—to inspect the prisons, what do you see when you go into HMP Addiewell or HMP Kilmarnock compared with what you see in other prisons?

The cost will be in the tens of millions. I am sure that the committee will discuss that in more detail, and with the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Veterans.

My final point is about women in prisons. In the submission, you said:

“Women in particular are at the extreme end of the waiting times and if requiring high secure in-patient treatment are transferred to England”.

Is that a capacity problem in Scotland?

Does that mean that there are facilities in Scotland, but they are full, or that there are no facilities?

Why do you think the Government would want to take HMP Kilmarnock back in-house to SPS?

I am not, but I would love to know.

Where would all the prisoners go?

Thank you. That is helpful.

I will let other members come in; I might come back in later.

I want to follow on from my previous line of questioning around scenario planning. Is there any concern from the Prison Service that, due to the events of the past two and a half years, during which you admit that the rehabilitation service that you would like to have provided has been lacking, coupled with the real potential for reverting to a Covid-like clamp down on what happens in prison, that might create a pressure pot leading to increased violence in prisons, further attacks on staff or even the potential for rioting?