Chamber and committees

That is very interesting. Much of the prison estate is very old and antiquated and is not fit for what you suggest.

Another thing that struck me was the idea that the first three months are vital and key. We have not explored that area. It is not covered in the bill as such, but the period of time when someone enters custody is vital, whether they are an adult or younger. At the moment, what is not happening when someone enters custody that should be happening? What could be done better to reduce the risk involved in those first three months?

I have one or two more questions, based on things that struck me as you were speaking. I was struck by what Katie told you about life inside a young offenders institution and the kind of people who are in there. I presume that she was talking about female inmates rather than the general population.

You mentioned the three cohorts of people who have been sentenced by a judge or sheriff for making a mistake in life. I presume that something serious would have to have happened for a custodial decision to be taken. There are people who are institutionalised, with patterns of offending, because they feel safer and more comfortable in that type of life, away from harm outside in the real world, and there are people who are very unwell. Do you mean that they have been traumatised by historical adverse experiences in life and have mental health issues?

What do you think their role is? I have grappled with that question over the past year as we have taken a lot of evidence on the issues. Do they have a role in Scottish justice?

Okay. However, you do not think that they should be there.

So you could immediately accommodate a substantive change to how and where people are placed.

How many of the 84 beds in secure accommodation, which is designed to cater for 16 and 17-year-olds under the current legislation, are available or were available at the time when those people were placed in Polmont? I am trying to understand why you have them at all.

Finally, what would you like to see from the Crown Office? I am not talking about any live proceedings—that would not be appropriate—but five years is clearly an awfully long time to wait for anything to happen. You are not the only family that has been waiting that long. What improvements would you like to see in the Crown Office? What would be your big ask of the new justice minister?

I am going to start with a question for Gerald Michie. Gerald, you said that there are seven children in the prison estate.

Okay, so none of the people that you have in Polmont is there as a result of a lack of capacity in secure accommodation.