Chamber and committees

We were, thank you. Your feedback is noted.

I have a question on prisons, but it might be better for me to ask it as a supplementary in order to allow other members to come in.

It is probably only right and fair that Mr McQueen is offered an opportunity to respond. There is a drive to address the backlog, but there is a lot of concern that that should not be done in a way that dilutes the sanctity, if you like, of putting justice ahead of convenience.

Thank you for that feedback. I refer you back to the comments that were made about virtual hearings and the lack of communication. It is important that account is taken of that and of the gravity of appearing in the High Court. The discussion about changes to the justice system will rumble on.

On a completely separate issue, I have a question for Police Scotland about the submission—

I have several areas that I would like to cover, but I am happy to come back in later. The first area of natural interest is what happens next in our criminal justice system. We can all identify that there is a tremendous backlog of cases, which has a knock-on effect both on those on remand—I am sure that we will discuss that later—and on the victims who are involved. The backlog is huge, as is the challenge. We know that all the stops are being pulled out, but it is not just about increasing the size of the judicial estate; it is also about how we get through the backlog.

Which of the temporary measures to deal with the health emergency are likely to become permanent measures in the justice system? I am thinking specifically of virtual trials and the submission of written evidence rather than verbal evidence, which can be cross-examined and properly interrogated, for example. What concerns have been raised by the legal profession that some of the temporary measures should not become permanent?

I want to note, for the benefit of the Official Report, that the Scottish Conservatives voted against the proposed cuts to the community payback order disposals—and, I think, rightly so.

I want to address an elephant in the room that has been present in previous committee meetings with previous cabinet secretaries and which will no doubt be the source of endless conversation as we move forward: the endemic problem of drugs in our prisons. The statistics speak for themselves. In 2007, around 200 prisoners were identified as having a drug problem in our prison service; last year, the figure was 2,200. I know that to be true, because on our visit last week to HMP Edinburgh, two prisoners spoke frankly to me about the matter. I hope that we can be just as frank today about the problem. One of the prisoners said that it was easier to get drugs inside prison than outside of it—and I believe that to be true, too, as he had no reason to lie—and the other told me that if I wanted drugs he could get them to me in five minutes. Is that an area of concern? Is this a rising problem, or have things stabilised? Indeed, is the figure going down? What is being done to address the issue?

I have a minor and brief point to make on the second instrument, which is that the fee increase is 6 per cent but no explanatory note has been offered with regard to that level or the rationale behind it.

So, it is not the case that the Scottish Government has a problem with the principle of the extraction of data, which is perhaps how it was reported.

Thank you—that is helpful.

The problem, however, is that drugs are getting into the prison. We are not talking about wider society; we are talking about high volumes of dangerous drugs getting into prisons in the first place, and they are not being stopped. Surely that is an area of policy that we can address now. We do not need legislative change to deal with that. Of course you will have support from Parliament to address the issue. There are people dying of drug overdoses in our prisons, and there are people entering the system without addictions and leaving it with them. That sounds utterly bizarre to us.

Perhaps linked to that is the issue of suicide in prisons. The suicide rate in Scottish prisons is around 125 per 100,000—or it was last time I checked. That is around 10 times the average in wider society, so there are clearly issues around mental health in prisons and the safety of prisoners, given the context of the serious organised crime activity that is taking place in our prisons and some of the issues that have rightly been raised in the media in recent weeks. How safe are prisoners in our prisons? Are they safe enough? Is there more that can be done? What are we doing to address that shocking statistic of suicide in prison, especially among the women’s population, where the level is even higher?

If the Scottish Government—this is a further technical matter—was not happy with either the draft wording of the code of conduct or what UK ministers proposed, would you amend the legislative consent motion, or have it agreed to as drafted but subsequently issue another one? I am sorry—I am still a bit confused as to the process.