Chamber and committees

I will follow up with a similar question and you might again be unable to answer the second part, for obvious reasons. In your submission, you set out some data that you have alluded to throughout the meeting. You say that the Scottish system costs the public purse either five times as much or 500 per cent more than it does in England, but that Scottish institutions receive less income than those in England. In your submission, you say that they receive 23 per cent less income; earlier today, you said 27 per cent less income.

If we assume that the Scottish Government is cognisant of those figures, what steps would you expect it to take to address that, and are you seeing any evidence that those steps are being taken?

I will stay on that theme, Dr Conlon. I wrote down some words that you said at the start. It might not be a precise quote, but I think that you said that there is a significant risk of a Scottish university shutting down. Later, you talked about the potential for an institution to fall over. Please help the committee to understand what leads you to say that. Is there any indication that the Scottish Government recognises that risk and is responding to it?

David Belsey, what is your view? Is that work being done?

Earlier, we brought up the Withers report. James Withers referred to colleges as

“a burning platform in relation to finance and sustainability”

and said that he feared that there might be

“a ... chaotic reorganisation ... based on the law of natural selection”.—[Official Report, Education, Children and Young People Committee, 15 November 2023; c 49.]

David Belsey, do you recognise that risk? If so, what can be done to manage it and is the Government taking that action?

Mark MacPherson, given what you have just heard and what you know about the sector, is there a risk of chaotic reorganisation? If so, what is being done to mitigate it?

On that point, the helpful submission that Mary Senior sent in states that the Scottish Government

“provides over £1billion ... to higher education annually”,

but

“a decade ago they were citing”

exactly

“the same ... figure”.

In your submission, you also suggest that the policy of free tuition

“needs to be properly funded”.

The committee is looking at the budget process. Are you able to guide us on what “properly funded” looks like, in terms of an indicative sum?

I understand.

I understand.

I return to Pam Duncan-Glancy’s line of questioning. In early 2023, you appeared before the Economy and Fair Work Committee and talked about a teacher upskilling programme. At the time, you talked about it launching shortly. For the avoidance of doubt, is that the same programme as STACS? In any event, what level of demand has been experienced? Is it having the impact that you wanted and, if not, given the statistics that you put out earlier, who needs to step up?

That is very encouraging. Another question relates to where Bill Kidd was going. Bill asked you about making public bodies aware of the principles, but that begs a question about how children, young people, parents and carers will be made aware of the revised principles. Is the onus on the public bodies themselves to do that?