Chamber and committees

As an MSP for South Scotland, I know the hotel and railway station well. That was useful, Roddy.

Phil Prentice referred to the report that was published recently. We have had such reports before. You gave the example of Kilmarnock, where the council has done good work, but anyone who walks down Kilmarnock High Street will see that the biggest growing population at the moment is still, sadly, “To Let” signs. Why has existing policy not worked and how will what is proposed be any different?

Good morning. We have heard about positive work that is taking place in our town centres, with everything from dementia-friendly housing to Kirkcaldy gin—which sounds like a really good option.

I am keen to build on Michelle Thomson’s questions. Given all the good ideas and all the good work that is taking place, what is the main policy lever and the main support that you could get from the Scottish Government to make what you want in your town centres happen? I will kick off with Gemma Cruickshank. What would help your BID to deliver what businesses in Elgin town centre need?

Thank you very much. That was very helpful.

I put the same question to Anthea Coulter, who mentioned a particular example involving VisitScotland. Are there any other Government policy initiatives that you would like to see to support the work that is being done in Clackmannanshire?

Can I just touch on—

You made the valid points that there needs to be a bottom-up approach, that each town is different and that there is not going to be a solution from either the council or the Government. How do we then enable that bottom-up approach to happen?

The convener asked me to be brief, but I have asked a question that you could probably give a very long answer to. I will leave it there, but I am interested in how we enable that bottom-up approach.

I will look at two threats that town centres face. The first is the challenge of online shopping. How can we support town centres that have to face the fact that somebody can sit on their settee at 10 o’clock at night, click their phone a couple of times and have whatever they want delivered to their house the next morning? Why would they need to go into the town centre? How do we deliver more of a level playing field for businesses in our town centres when they are faced with that onslaught from online shopping?

I will leave it at that and come to the second threat in a moment.

Is it therefore about the type of retail that we support? You suggest that town centres will never be able to compete with online retailers on some products, so is it about changing the retail offer or enhancing what online companies cannot compete with in town centres?

I suppose that the other big threat is out-of-town developments. In a previous life, I was a councillor in Dumfries, covering the town centre, and I still have the scars from trying to pursue a town centre first approach. I will give an example. A big retailer in the town centre wanted a development in an out-of-town area. The council dug in its heels and said no, and the retailer pulled out of the town. There was capacity in the town centre, but it was cheaper for the retailer to build a square box in an out-of-town development, so they pulled out. If I am being honest about it, the council got a kicking from residents when the retailer left because the council had tried to protect the town centre.

It seems that the town centre first approach is a good idea, but it is simply not delivering. I know that there is an element of closing the stable door after the horse has bolted, given that there are so many out-of-town developments, but how do we strengthen the town centre first approach? The public quite like out-of-town developments. In addition, what do we do where the issue is not so much that a retailer is developing out of town as that people can get from a great big 24-hour supermarket the products that they used to get on their high street? You cannot build that big supermarket in the town centre—there are options there, but not as many.

If you try to take a town centre first approach, a supermarket is going to say, “There isn’t a site in the town centre for us, so we’re going out of town.” People can then buy their pots and pans, their clothes and everything else there. How do we strengthen the town centre first principle?

Good morning, cabinet secretary. The Scottish Trades Union Congress has branded the strategy a “missed opportunity” to deliver a “transformative change”, saying that there is not enough focus on improving pay and conditions in the foundational economy, which is the largest employer and an engine room of economic activity. Roz Foyer, who is part of the advisory council that you referred to, said:

“this is more a strategy for economic status quo than economic transformation.”

Why do you think the STUC is wrong?

But you do not have a mechanism by which you can say, “Well, actually, we don’t need to put that money there—somebody else will fill that gap.”