Chamber and committees

That is really encouraging to know.

Expanding on that a wee bit, we have been reassured that the new women’s custody units will go ahead as planned, following on from the two that are already up and running. Is that the case?

We have heard some very valid points from all of our witnesses today. The one thing that we would probably agree on is that there is a consensus for change and that everybody agrees that there are huge issues with the current system.

It is a mistake to think that the Government is not listening to your concerns—I think that it is. From what you are saying, the issue is one of timing. I get that, but I do not think that there is any value in trying to backtrack; we just are where we are now. I do not think that there is any possibility of the bill being rushed through and your concerns being ignored. We should always bear in mind that the bill itself is a framework bill to allow the Government to start the process of change. The co-design part of it is where you come in. That said, I get your point about timing, and I am not disputing it.

You have answered questions on a lot of things. My question now is: if more consultation and engagement were offered to you at this stage, would that allay some of your concerns? Would it allay some of the concerns of your members, Kate and Lynsey, and those of COSLA? It is a matter of being realistic, given the point that we are at.

Great.

I have a quick follow-up on Pauline McNeill’s line of questioning about the high risk of prison disturbances and so on. Could you clarify what would lead to such a situation? Would it be lack of purposeful activity or more restrictions? What impact would lack of finances have? Could you outline a few instances?

What would you like to see put in place for women who do not have severe mental health issues but who clearly need holistic care, so that they do not automatically go to prison for more minor offences that are caused by mental health issues? They need care, but not necessarily in what are serious institutions.

The other part of my question was about the dedicated aged care prison facility. Are you suggesting a separate prison for older prisoners?

I would like to ask a wee bit more about health and mental health, which we have touched on.

Your submission states that

“Discussion on alternatives needs to take place between Health and Justice around the safe and appropriate location of prisoners with mental health issues.”

I am thinking particularly about the number of women prisoners concerned, and you have been very outspoken about that. I read a shocking statistic that 80 per cent of women in prison have brain damage due to domestic abuse. Clearly, prison is no place for them. Can you expand on what you mean by “alternatives” to prison? How can they be achieved, given the current financial pressures?

Secondly, you also said that you approve of

“consideration of a dedicated aged care prison facility”,

which, I presume, is to deal with the number of older prisoners in what is an ageing population. Can you expand on that? In an ideal world, what could be achieved? Realistically, given the financial pressures, what can be achieved?

You talked earlier about radical prison reform. Would you see that as a core part of it?

A number of third sector agencies do a lot of good work with women, particularly when they are being released from prison.