Chamber and committees

Yes—absolutely. I am not going to disband Transport Scotland at the committee’s meeting this morning, convener. However, to get into the detail of Ms Hyslop’s question, it is important that we recognise some of the challenges with the current tripartite structure. I am sure that committee members have read the project Neptune report and they will know that the tripartite structure comes with a number of challenges. There is a line in the report that says that the role of ministers is often quite detached from the tripartite structure. That is problematic, because I answer parliamentary questions in the chamber and I appear before the committee, yet ministers can feel very detached from that process.

Ms Hyslop asked whether some of the responsibilities could be transferred within the Scottish Government. Yes, they could. Could that strengthen the relationship between Transport Scotland and the Scottish ministers? Yes. Ultimately, following project Neptune, the community consultation work will tell us where the community wants us to go in that regard, and I am keen to hear from it. I do not want to prejudge that, but Ms Hyslop makes an interesting point.

It is interesting. The Norwegian experience is very different from what we have in Scotland, given the number and type of routes that are run and the type of vessels that are used. If we look at project Neptune, we can see that Scotland is quite unique in how we deliver ferry services. No other country in the world does things as we do them in Scotland. Maybe that is a good thing and maybe it is a bad thing—I will allow the committee to judge that. Nonetheless, I do not think that unbundling would provide us with the answers that we need here.

I return to Ms Hyslop’s observation in her question that the main challenge for the fleet just now is resilience and reliability. How do we improve that? That is what I am absolutely focused on, as transport minister, at the current time. It is about bringing in extra tonnage where we are able to do that, making sure that there is the investment that Mr Kerr spoke about—we have done a lot of that work in the past year—and ensuring that passengers’ lived experience of the network improves. It will need to improve markedly in the interim.

I would be happy to do that.

The member has asked a fair question. On the vessels that have been procured and are being built in Turkey, that was a free and open competition, and we could not dictate such terms in that competition. I am prepared to be wrong about that—I am looking at officials in case they are going to correct me. We could not dictate in that competition where the award was made, because it was an open competition.

The point about the supply chain issue is well made. As far as I understand it, there will be benefits to the UK supply chain in relation to the vessels that are being built in Turkey.

Obviously, we will have to do that as a matter of urgency, but I reflect to committee members that that is the first time that I have heard that statistic. I do not know whether officials have heard that previously in relation to inflationary impacts. It is also important to reflect that we have already leveraged £580 million into ports and vessels, so the additionality, which has been brought in the past financial year, joins that contribution.

In answer to Mr Kerr’s wider point in relation to inflation, of course, we will need to work with CMAL on mapping out what those inflationary impacts actually mean for the current fleet and the deliverables, which are absolutely key.

However, today was the first time that I had heard that particular statistic in relation to the inflationary impacts on the fleet. I am happy to hear officials’ views on that, but I think that we will need to look at the point that Mr Kerr has raised.

Yes, absolutely; I would.

As I think that I alluded to in my opening statement, I am very conscious that a lot of evidence exists of the problems and where we need to go next in relation to the delivery of ferry services in Scotland. What I need to do now is move us forward on project Neptune specifically. However, your point about trade unions is a good one, so I will certainly take that away as an action point from today’s meeting, and I will speak to CalMac and CMAL about what we might be able to do in that space.

There should be lots of scope for greater devolution of management, because, in my experience as minister, island communities often feel that CalMac is a bit top-heavy. In the future delivery model, it would be important to look to have a more people-focused organisation that is on the ground in our island communities. If you go out—I know that the committee has been out and about—and speak to folk who live in our island communities, they will tell you that some of the best people who work in the organisation are the people who work in the ports or the ticket offices or who help them on the boats. There are some fantastic people in these organisations. Obviously, at the moment, we are talking about CalMac, but I should say that that is also true of Serco NorthLink.

Ms Lennon is right in relation to the sentiment of her question about the devolution of management or, I suppose, having a more front-facing organisation, and there should be opportunities for that. One of the things that I have done as minister, in the past year and a bit, is to convene regular resilience calls. It is really important that, as minister, I hear regularly and routinely from island communities when there are periods of sustained disruption. However, it is not just me who comes to those meetings—it is also CalMac, CMAL and Transport Scotland. There is something about organisations facing up to challenges when they occur—of course, I also do that as minister—and the community seeing it, understanding it and, in my experience, actually being reassured when there are challenges on the network.

The people from island communities who I speak to on the resilience calls are reassured when they know that there is a plan. What does not provide them with reassurance is the uncertainty that outages cause.

To go back to the overarching question that Ms Lennon asks about that devolution of management, we need to think about how we can get more of CalMac’s management team into our communities. We also need the organisation to think about the strengths that it already has within it—the people who work in the ticket offices and on the front line. They are fantastic advocates and ambassadors for the organisation, so it is not just all about the managers.

It is not just that. I will allow Transport Scotland to answer for itself, but it is fair to say that, in recent times—I will be careful how I say this, convener—because the issue of ferries has become topical in the chamber and parliamentary committees, as is quite right and is, of course, in Parliament’s gift, the workload pressures on Transport Scotland have been greater than they probably have been at any other time before now. That has an impact on the progress that we have been able to make in a number of different areas. I will allow Transport Scotland to speak—

As the former cabinet secretary will know, I have confidence that my officials are doing their jobs. Project Neptune was carried out by Ernst & Young as the appointed consultant. It carried out that investigation last year and I published it and presented it to Parliament in September.

Overall, the role that Transport Scotland fulfils is a hugely important one, and I have confidence that it is fulfilling its role, if that is the deputy convener’s question.