Chamber and committees

I hope that the committee will indulge me slightly, because there is clearly a lot for me to cover, and I want to pick up on each of the areas that have been identified by members who have lodged amendments in the group. From looking at all the amendments to sections 2 and 3, it is clear that there is, quite rightly, a lot of interest in the scrutiny, content and role of the rural support plan.

There have been lots of helpful suggestions about how the bill’s current provisions might be strengthened. It is crucial that we do not consider each element in isolation; we should consider them as a coherent whole to ensure that the plan is drafted and delivered and that it functions as we all want it to do.

The first rural support plan will need to take into account our transition from legacy EU CAP schemes to the new four-tier framework. The route map, which I have talked about at length in previous committee meetings, sets out the transition period, and we are actively co-developing the details of the tiers in the framework with rural partners and stakeholders. The transition period will, of course, have implications for the first plan that we produce, as we are constrained in practice by what currently exists while we develop the details of the new system.

I cannot make a commitment on a budget that I do not have. It would be irresponsible for me to do that.

I absolutely appreciate your point. I hope that you do not find too many examples of that where we have consulted in my own portfolio, because accessibility is fundamental and I think that we have some really good examples of consultations that we have undertaken. We have touched on the Good Food Nation (Scotland) Act 2022 and some of the engagement that was undertaken on that. We have worked with Nourish Scotland, which has done fantastic work in helping us to engage more widely, as well as with other organisations. That is important, because we want to ensure that people understand the information on which we are consulting and that the consultation is undertaken in an accessible way. We have obligations in relation to that, and all of that will be key to what we are considering when we look at the overall consultation requirements that I have set out. I hope that Ariane Burgess is reassured on that point.

With regard to amendment 120, I would probably have more sympathy with Rachael Hamilton’s point if it had not been for the fact that her party had created some of the trade barriers to the export and import of food from the EU, which may now mean that imports are coming from further afield than they previously did. In addition, in spite of the member’s explanation, I am not entirely clear as to what the intent behind gathering such information is, given the rurality and sparsity of the population in Scotland, particularly in our island communities, where, by definition, the number of food miles is going to be greater than what is needed to reach other areas. It is quite clear that we should be doing all that we can to produce more food and meet more of our own food needs, and to do that more sustainably in Scotland. That is a core aim of this Government.

I completely disagree with your assertion. As I have said, I fully intend to discuss matters with individual members, just as I undertook meetings with members to discuss potential amendments at stage 2. I intend to have those discussions—and to have them in good time.

It is important that we look at this holistically. As I have set out, there are different requirements in some of these amendments, and it is important that we take these things away, look at them and ensure that we have a workable plan that takes all of that into consideration.

I propose to speak to the amendments in my name before turning to the other amendments in the group. I have listened to the calls from the committee and stakeholders at stage 1 to provide further clarity on what ministers must have regard to in relation to land use in the preparation or amendment of the rural support plan. That is why I have lodged amendment 4.

I want to ensure that it is made clear to all that Scottish ministers have a clear and explicit duty to account for the broadest of considerations and impacts when devising a plan for the future support of agriculture. It might go without saying that such a duty exists, but it is right to put it plainly that Scottish ministers must have regard to statutory duties that relate to agriculture, biodiversity, land use and the environment.

Amendment 42, in the name of Elena Whitham, refers to biodiversity, too. It is a helpful addition that makes clear the breadth of considerations, so I very much welcome its inclusion. It is right that those duties are put at the heart of our rural support plan. I therefore ask the committee to accept amendment 4 in my name and to support Elena Whitham’s amendment 42.

Amendment 5 seeks to place fair work and conditionality, which is a Scottish Government policy across all public support, as a central objective for Scottish Government agricultural support. It puts fair work policy into legislation for all future support, which contributes to making fair work practices the norm in Scottish workplaces and, in doing so, supports the vision for Scotland to become a fair work nation.

I know that amendments in other groups and on other sections of the bill seek to add fair work considerations, but this feels like the best place to put it—at the heart of the rural support plan, from which the details of the framework, future tiers and schemes will flow.

I would want to point out the benefit, as I see it, of having REM. As I have set out, it is about compliance and enforcement, as well as providing all the other information that we can look to glean from it. There are other benefits, too, as I have also set out. The information was volunteered from retailers themselves and from the MSC in response to our consultations. They have told us that directly.

The evidence and the information that we have gathered from that monitoring have been invaluable, and that has almost led us to where we are today. We actually started the roll-out of that monitoring in 2017, based on the calls of the fishing industry itself, which could see the benefits. The industry wanted to see REM mandated for the fleet because it saw the benefits of that as much as anyone else. It has been important that we have taken the learning from that, which has led to the development of the regulations that are in front of the committee today.

We consulted with the industry on the technical specifications and, of course, we shared a draft of those with the committee. Those specifications are, of course, very technical in nature and have been designed to support any future anticipated data requirements that we might have. Given that the technology continues to be developed, we might need to update those specifications in the future, depending on how things go.

We always intend to work with the industry as we update things because of its strong interest and the fact that, ultimately, it would need to implement the requirements. It is therefore in our best interests to ensure that we engage with the industry, and we did consult it on the technical specifications.

It is really helpful to have had our experience with the roll-out since 2017, because we can look at whether there are any particular issues or malfunctions and how often they happen. Like any system, REM needs to be maintained to ensure that it is operating effectively but, of course, malfunctions and technical faults do happen. However, from the roll-out so far, there have been few such incidents or cases. A particular issue was identified with the winch sensors because they are more exposed. There has been on-going work with engineers to find a solution to that, so we are implementing a resolution. In a minute, I will hand over to Ellen Huis, who can perhaps provide a bit more detail on that.

With regard to what we have set out in the regulations, we recognise that technical faults and malfunctions can happen, and we have tried to get the balance right and deal with that in a pragmatic way. We do not want to tie boats up, but we also have to make sure that the objectives of the SSI and what we are trying to achieve with it are met. We recognise the challenges, which is why we drafted the regulations in the way that we did.

I will hand over to Ellen Huis, who will provide a bit more information in relation to some of those particular issues.

We are not planning to issue any compensation. We have to make sure that we are taking a balanced and pragmatic approach, but we also have to make sure that we are not undermining the objectives of the legislation and what we need to achieve from REM. That is why we have set out in the regulations qualifications in relation to a first or second breakdown and other qualifications beyond that, as Ellen Huis has outlined. All of that is important because we need to ensure that we get the balance right. We cannot expect or allow fishing to continue if it undermines the objectives of the SSI.