Chamber and committees

I will follow up on how we could demonstrate that we had complied with the requirement and had regard to the thing in question. It could also be something that is set out in the good food nation plans. For example, if it related to a function such as giving grants, the grant paperwork could express how we had had regard to it. If it was a legislative purpose, that could be specified in the policy note. There are different ways in which we could demonstrate that we had had regard to the good food nation plan.

I cannot give you a definitive timescale, and the bill is not in my portfolio. We have committed to introducing the bill in this parliamentary session, and I believe that the consultation on it is due to take place this year.

Absolutely. I reiterate what I said in response to Beatrice Wishart’s question. Section 3 says that

“the Scottish Ministers must have regard to the international instruments”,

as listed. I believe that what we have set out is adequate, but I acknowledge the evidence that the committee has taken. Again, if the committee has recommendations in that regard, I am happy to consider them.

I feel that it is, in what we have set out in the bill so far. We have talked about some of the regulations that allow us to be agile in that way. Perhaps that goes back to our discussion about targets and the reticence to put those in the bill because they evolve and change over time, which means that legislation can go out of date very quickly and we would have less flexibility. However, I believe that what we have set out in the bill gives us the flexibility to deal with any emerging issues and provides for the appropriate frequency to review and report on the bill. As far as is possible, we can ensure that the bill is up to date and meets the challenges that it needs to address.

First, I want to make it absolutely clear that, as a Government, we have agreed to incorporate the right to food into Scots law. The issue is, in essence, the vehicle that we choose to use to do that. We felt that it was more appropriate, based on the recommendations of the Scottish Human Rights Commission, for such a right to be part of the human rights bill, which will be introduced in the current parliamentary session. We made that decision because the national task force for human rights leadership stated that that would help to reinforce the interrelationships between rights and obligations. Given that the right to food is related to other rights that are of vital importance, it was felt that it would make more sense and be more appropriate for that to form part of human rights legislation and to be incorporated into Scots law in that way.

Section 3 of the Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill states that we must

“have regard to the international instruments”

that are listed, and the first on the list is

“Article 11 (so far as it concerns adequate food) of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights”.

We have said in the bill that we must have regard to that in our legislation. Some of the measures that I have discussed today, such as our local food strategy, food for life and other initiatives not just in my portfolio but across the Government, are all about giving effect to that right. We are already trying to give effect to that right. However, the forthcoming human rights bill is the legislative vehicle through which it will be incorporated into Scots law.

That is why I have re-established the ministerial working group on food. As members will know from the evidence that the committee has taken and the sheer variety of stakeholders involved, food touches on so many different areas; food is a fundamental aspect of many different things and links all of us in a way. The ministerial working group on food will be crucial in ensuring that we have that coherence and that we consider all the relevant issues as we develop our good food nation plan.

I am more than happy to listen to any views that the committee has on that. It could be considered as part of the development of the good food nation plans.

We want to harness the power that we have in the public sector in relation to food policy. There is a lot of power there, which enables us to have a huge impact. We have seen the impact of some of that work through, for example, the food for life campaign, which we deliver with the Soil Association. The positive impacts from that have been talked about and can be seen in education, health and the local economy.

Currently, 18 local authorities are part of the food for life scheme. We hope to reach all local authorities. The scheme is having a positive impact, so we very much hope to continue that work and develop it.

I am sorry, but I am not sure that I understand the question. Are you talking about the Government directly funding something in particular?

The evidence given to the committee on targets has been really interesting. I am looking forward to seeing what the committee’s stage 1 report says about that issue, because a lot of contrasting opinions have been expressed in response to the committee’s questions.

Some of those who gave evidence expressed concern that, as you suggest, targets could be leading us by the nose. As the committee has heard from many stakeholders, the bill covers so many different areas that it could just be one long list of targets. The concern was expressed that that would become the focus of work on the issue instead of the fundamental change that we want to bring about. Even if we had a narrower range of targets, that could still become the focus.

Another reason why we did not want to put targets in the bill is that the situation is evolving. The targets might change over time and go out of date quite quickly, and, if they were in primary legislation, we would have to amend that primary legislation to change them.

The most appropriate approach is to set out in the plans the outcomes that we want to achieve. Again, the evidence on that has been really interesting. For example, Food Standards Scotland said that it would like to see an outcome related to the Scottish dietary goals. There are a broad range of areas that we would want to cover.

Robin Gourlay said in evidence that he acknowledges that targets would be helpful but that that is not what the bill is about. He said that, instead of being about hitting individual targets, the bill seeks approaches that will drive change in the food system. Concerns were also expressed by the local authorities when they gave evidence to the committee.

I hope that that helps to explain why we have proposed to have outcomes and measures in the plans rather than in the bill.

Not at the moment. I hope that I have been able to explain the rationale for setting out the relevant authorities in the bill as we have done. Again, I note that we have the power to amend that list, and if the committee has any recommendations for authorities that it thinks should be added to the list, I would be happy to consider them.