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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 27 November 2024
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Displaying 2562 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 5 October 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much, indeed. That has been a useful session for us. I thank the director general, Neil Rennick, for coming along and leading on this evidence and Eleanor Passmore for your input. Matthew Sweeney and Joanna Anderson from COSLA, thank you very much, indeed, for answering our questions and taking part in this morning’s discussion.

10:33 Meeting continued in private until 11:06.  

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 5 October 2023

Richard Leonard

I will go swiftly to the deputy convener, Sharon Dowey, who has some questions that follow up on that theme.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 5 October 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much. I think that you said that, as the accountable officer, you accept all the recommendations in the report that was produced by Audit Scotland and the Accounts Commission. Is that correct, Mr Rennick?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 5 October 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much.

I turn to something that we took evidence on back in June, when the Auditor General’s report was published. At that point, there was real interest in the capital spend to deliver these quite ambitious targets. At that time, the evidence that we were given was that the Scottish Futures Trust was going to gather information on capital spend and try to come up with some estimates of current spend and what future spend might be. Mr Rennick, can you update us on where we have got to with that work by the Scottish Futures Trust?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 5 October 2023

Richard Leonard

That is helpful. We will ask questions about the financing of the operational model at some point.

Colin Beattie has some questions.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 5 October 2023

Richard Leonard

I want to take you back to the questions about demand for childcare and how that is being assessed and what data is being collected. I think that Willie Coffey and Graham Simpson wanted to come in on that, but Colin Beattie was on a roll, so I let him continue.

Willie Coffey, do you want to come in on that issue before you move on to your other questions? Graham Simpson also wants to come in on this data set stuff.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 5 October 2023

Richard Leonard

It is an entitlement for those families and children that does not appear to have been fulfilled. It is a failing of this part of the policy, isn’t it?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 5 October 2023

Richard Leonard

Sorry, but what I am asking, Mr Rennick, is to do with what you said about 84 per cent of providers meeting the criterion of paying their staff at least the living wage, which means that 16 per cent did not. What leverage do you have over that 16 per cent?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 5 October 2023

Richard Leonard

As we reflected in the previous evidence session that we had with the Auditor General, that is an implementation group. That is its title, is it not? It is the ELC living wage and fair work implementation group. What is its role in ensuring that fair work and living wage conditions are implemented? Matthew Sweeney, I do not know whether you can answer that.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 5 October 2023

Richard Leonard

Good. Graham Simpson wants to ask some questions.