Chamber and committees

Thank you very much indeed.

I draw this evidence session to a close. I reflect on the fact that the closing paragraphs of the Auditor General’s state bluntly:

“Addressing the challenges facing the college sector cannot be avoided or postponed.”

I think that the evidence we have taken today certainly shows that everyone around this table is clear that that is an absolute truism. As I said at the start, when we get to January, we will have the Scottish Government and the Scottish Funding Council before us. That paragraph of the report goes on to make clear that the responsibility lies at their door, so we will do our level best to try to get some answers from them.

I thank you for your evidence, which has been very lucid and forthright and is valuable to us as a Public Audit Committee. Good luck to those who are involved in negotiations this afternoon. You may be travelling in hope, rather than expectation, but hope is a valuable commodity. I thank Ellie Gomersall, Derek Smeall, John Mooney, Andy Witty and Stuart Brown for their time and for the insights that they have given us, and I now move the committee into private session.

The second item on our agenda is further consideration of the Auditor General for Scotland’s briefing note, “Scotland’s colleges 2023”. I welcome everyone to the meeting. We are taking evidence in a round-table format, which is intended to promote a freer flow of discussion and, maybe, a less confrontational style of evidence taking. As it is a round table, I invite our witnesses to introduce themselves.

Stuart Brown wants to come in on this question, too.

We will take evidence in the new year from the Scottish Funding Council, but I note that, in an evidence-taking session with him, the Auditor General told us that, in 2020-21, three colleges out of 24 were in deficit, and that that rose to nine in 2021-22. I am not saying that there will be a linear progression but, if we extrapolate that rate of deficit growth, that would mean that every college in Scotland would be operating in deficit in the next financial year.

But, you are here, as a representative of the college principals group, so it is important that you are telling us that.

I will ask Stuart Brown about the reduction in the workforce. One of the points that the Auditor General makes in his report is that, although, on the whole, the public sector workforce has grown, the workforce in the further education sector has contracted. Do you want to comment on that or any of the other points that Derek Smeall introduced?

Thank you—that is clear. Andy Witty, can I ask you to broaden things out? The report identifies other risks that the college sector is up against. Could you elaborate on them and give us your view on them? Are there other risks that are not included in the Auditor General’s assessment?

Okay—thank you. I know that Stuart Brown wants to come back in—you will have another opportunity, Stuart, before we finish up—but I am keen for Willie Coffey to lead the next part of the conversation.

John Mooney wants to come in on that point, and then we will move back to revenue, which Graham Simpson will lead on.

Okay. As Stuart Brown called out Andy Witty’s organisation, I think that we need to give him the right to reply before we move on.

I am conscious of the time, and we are anxious, before we conclude, to cover topics such as the Scottish Funding Council’s new model of distribution and what impact that will have. We will also turn to the Withers review.

I invite the deputy convener, Sharon Dowey, to guide us through the final section of our discussion.