Chamber and committees

Auditor General, do you want to add anything to that?

Thank you very much indeed. As you know, the committee retains a watching brief on information and communications technology projects, not least from the point of view of capital expenditure, but we will look at the security aspects as well. We all need to learn the lessons of the experience that SEPA has undergone. As is mentioned in the report, an organisation that is, by its nature, geared up to dealing with emergencies has had to deal with something that it might not have foreseen. The whole public sector needs to take broader lessons from that.

I thank Morag Campsie and Joanne Brown, who joined us online, and the Auditor General very much indeed for their evidence. It has been a useful session for us and we will shortly consider our next steps.

Good morning, and welcome to the fifth meeting in 2022 of the Public Audit Committee. We have received apologies from Colin Beattie, and I am delighted to see that Willie Coffey has joined us this morning via videolink.

I remind members and visitors that the Parliament’s social distancing rules apply, and it would be much appreciated if people entering, leaving or moving around the room could wear a face covering.

Agenda item 1 is a decision on taking business in private. Do members agree to take items 4 and 5 in private?

Members indicated agreement.

We want to explore a couple of other areas before we finish this evidence-taking session. I was struck by the following heading in the report:

“Staff capacity constraints within the SFC created tensions between the agencies”,

and I note that those constraints in the Funding Council were highlighted to the skills alignment joint programme board in February 2020. Who is represented on the board, and was any action taken at the time? What is your view of a situation in which there is an atmosphere of tension between two agencies, both of which are supposed to be serving the public interest?

Craig Hoy has a number of questions.

Agenda item 2 is an evidence-taking session with the Auditor General for Scotland and members of the Audit Scotland team on the report “Planning for skills”, which was published just a couple of weeks ago. I once again welcome Stephen Boyle, the Auditor General for Scotland, who joins us in the committee room. We are joined online by Gordon Smail, audit director; Rebecca Seidel, senior manager; and Douglas Black, audit manager in performance audit and best value.

We have a considerable number of questions to ask about the report, but first I ask the Auditor General to make introductory remarks.

Thank you, Mr Smail. That was helpful.

Another aspect that is covered in the report, with regard to the skills alignment action plan, or strategy, is the skills committee. Someone coming to the issue for the first time might be a little confused about the skills committee. That is because, as I understand it, there was a proposal to convert the joint Scottish Funding Council and Skills Development Scotland skills committee to a skills committee of the enterprise and skills strategic board. The report is quite illuminating on that, and says that the conversion

“did not happen because of the statutory requirement for the existing committee to be chaired by a SFC board member. No alternative governance structure was introduced at ESSB level, and the joint SFC and SDS Skills Committee has not met since August 2017.”

The report was written in November 2021. It goes on to say:

“The SFC consolidated the Joint Skills Committee with another of its committees, which has since become the SFC’s Skills, Access, Enhancement and Learning Committee. SDS does not sit on this committee.”

That raises a host of questions, one of which is this: why did the enterprise and skills strategic board not seek to set up an alternative governance structure to allow the establishment of a proper co-operative and collaborative skills committee in which both organisations could have engaged?

That is fine. That would be helpful for us in navigating the myriad of organisations, committees and boards that are supposed to be working together to further the skills alignment agenda, but are not in all cases doing so.

A proposal to increase the funding to the Scottish Funding Council and the advanced learning and science directorate in 2022-23 was also mentioned in the report. Is that money that has been ring fenced to boost the skills alignment agenda or is it additional funding that will be given to the directorate and the agency?

The report covers the year 2020-21. Will we at some point—even if it is three years hence—see signed off accounts for SEPA for 2020-21, or is that possibility gone forever?

The next item on our agenda is consideration of “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency”. We are joined by the Auditor General, Stephen Boyle, and, via videolink, by Morag Campsie, who is a senior manager of audit services in Audit Scotland, and Joanne Brown, who is a partner in Grant Thornton UK LLP and carried out the audit.

I invite the Auditor General to make an opening statement.