Chamber and committees

That would indeed be very helpful.

Let me deal with a contemporary issue that has its roots in a bit of history, namely, private finance initiative and public-private partnership contracts. I cannot remember whether it was in the programme for government, but I am reminded of when the First Minister announced—fairly recently—that the 24-bed East Ayrshire community hospital was going to be taken out of PFI and brought back into the public sector, as almost an early glimpse of what was to come.

We know that those contracts are coming up towards the end of their period of private operation. We are interested in understanding a bit more about how that is working and what the plans are to manage that transition. The 24-bed East Ayrshire community hospital is small, but there are some big projects with presumably quite significant revenue implications for the public sector coming towards the end of their life in the private sector. Are they all coming into the public sector? What will that look like? What plans does the Government have to manage that transition and run those assets after they have been transferred?

Okay. Are the minutes available publicly?

Good morning. I welcome everyone back to the 15th meeting in 2022 of the Public Audit Committee, as we resume in public session. Under item 3, the committee will look at major capital projects. We get regular reports on the performance of such projects. This morning, we are keen to examine their governance and accountability arrangements. I am pleased that we are joined by a panel of five to help us understand how those governance and accountability issues work.

From the Scottish Government, I welcome Helen Carter, who is deputy director of infrastructure and investment; Nick Ford, who is director of Scottish procurement and property; Alan Morrison, who is deputy director of health infrastructure, investment and personal protective equipment; and Andrew Watson, who is director of budget and public spending. Last but not least, I welcome Lawrence Shackman, who is director of major projects at Transport Scotland.

We have not asked you to make an opening statement. If it is okay with you, Andrew Watson, we will use you as a conduit. Obviously, there will be questions that relate to particular areas of work, which you should feel free to direct. If other members of the panel want to come in at particular points, they should indicate to me or the clerks and we will do our best to bring you in. I will begin by asking the deputy convener, Sharon Dowey, to open the questions.

You can get back to us with more detail on that, if that would be useful.

I turn to Craig Hoy, who has some questions to put.

I am conscious of time, but Colin Beattie is next.

For the avoidance of doubt, this is not an unscheduled proxy session on the delivery of vessels 801 and 802.

Let us return to governance and accountability. Andrew Watson mentioned that he had given us a written submission in advance, which is very useful to us. In one part of the paper, which struck me, he says:

“Infrastructure strategy is developed through a range of mechanisms.”

I note from the paper that there is a Scottish Futures Trust, an infrastructure investment board, an Infrastructure Commission for Scotland, an infrastructure advisory group and, as Alan Morrison has just told us, a departmental infrastructure board. How do those all fit together? What are their respective roles? Is there duplication? Is the system overly bureaucratic or does it work perfectly well?

You mentioned the Scottish Futures Trust, which is listed in your submission as being a “key advisor” to the IIB. The IIB also has an infrastructure advisory group. Who is on the SFT and who is on the advisory group? Why are their roles different and what advice do they give you that is different? Is it not simply duplication?

Willie Coffey has related questions.

I understand that from an operational point of view, and I know that you cannot speak on matters of policy, but is it not matter of Government policy that it wishes those contracts to be brought back into the public sector, or have I misunderstood that?

That is helpful. In addition to the information that you have agreed to supply to the committee following the questions that Colin Beattie, for example, asked, it would be useful if you could furnish us with a copy of your 2020 guidance. If you are in a position to supply us with the current policy guidance that you receive as civil servants and the plans that you have, that would be helpful. We understand that there are a multitude of different contracts and different exit arrangements and so on, but to the extent to which you can furnish us with the information that allows us to get an overview of where things are, that would be helpful.

I am sorry that we have run out of time, and I appreciate that you have given us an undertaking to provide some of the evidence that we are looking for in writing. That is very helpful. Thank you for coming in to give us the benefit of your insight into how the governance arrangements are working on these major capital projects.

I draw the public part of the meeting to an end.