Chamber and committees

Craig Hoy has some more questions about fraud.

On that point, do we know the number of jobs that were lost as a result of 5.4 per cent of private sector businesses ceasing to operate? I take it that that is a net figure. Do we know yet what sectors those jobs were in?

That is fine; I would certainly welcome that.

I have two final summarising questions. The first about the overall assessment of Covid-19 spend by the Scottish Government, which we have touched on during this evidence session and which Ashleigh Madjitey mentioned. Do you have a timeframe for when that information will be in the public domain?

My second and final question pulls some of this together. Auditor General, what do you think the key themes are from the inquiries that you have carried out, and what are the critical lessons to be learned from the completely unforeseen experience that we have all been through?

On that note, I thank you, Auditor General, for the evidence that you have led this morning. I also thank Richard Robinson, Ashleigh Madjitey and Martin McLauchlan for their valuable input.

I briefly suspend the meeting to allow for a changeover of witnesses.

Good morning again, and welcome back to the 19th meeting of the Public Audit Committee in 2022. Agenda item 3 is consideration of the report produced by the Auditor General on social security and implementing the devolved benefits. I am pleased that, for this evidence session, the Auditor General has been joined by Carole Grant, who is an audit director at Audit Scotland.

I will begin, Auditor General, by inviting you to give us a short opening statement, after which we will have questions from members of the committee.

Thank you. That is useful. I invite Craig Hoy to put a couple of questions.

You mentioned earlier that staffing numbers had increased from 1,800 to around 2,400. Are they all direct employees of Social Security Scotland or is that a headcount that includes contractor staff?

Is it full-time equivalent? It would be useful to understand that.

Our last question is about the impact on outcomes, which, in the end, is what this has to be about. The Scottish Government has stated that the three principle objectives in rolling out the Scottish child payment are, first, to reduce child poverty by at least 3 per cent; secondly, to make sure that the payment gets to those who need it the most, not just those that would help the Government get over the line of meeting targets, such as that over 3 per cent figure; and, thirdly, to try to bring about a sustainable and lasting reduction in poverty in those families that are below the poverty line. We are interested in understanding whether the current performance measurement frameworks are fit for that purpose and whether they are sufficiently resourced. Is there capacity in the system to properly measure those targets?

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 19th meeting of the Public Audit Committee in 2022. Under item 1, does the committee agree to take agenda items 4 and 5 in private?

Members indicated agreement.