Chamber and committees

Graham Simpson, would you like to put your questions now?

I will pick up on that point. Was Transport Scotland present at the CMAL board during that August to October period?

There was quite a crucial date in or around that period. On 20 August, five days before the CMAL board meeting, during which the builders refund guarantee was discussed as a major issue, Keith Brown, as Cabinet Secretary for Infrastructure, Investment and Cities, was told by a Transport Scotland official to approve the preferred bidder award to Ferguson Marine. Given that, on 25 August, there was knowledge of an issue around the builders refund guarantee, surely that was known on 20 August. If so, why was that not communicated to the cabinet secretary?

On that point, one of the final emails in the collection was sent at 5.15 pm on 9 October by Ainslie McLaughlin. It says:

“Just finished my call with DFM. He now understands the background and that Mr McKay has cleared the proposal. So the way is clear to award.”

The Deputy First Minister, either as the Deputy First Minister or as the Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Constitution and Economy at the time, was involved right at the point of decision. The email before that says:

“would you drop a note in the system to confirm the absence of banana skins after your call with DFM please”.

What would the “banana skins” be?

Why did Roy Brannen tell this committee, on 26 May,

“If it was a transport project, it would be ... a decision entirely for the minister”?—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 26 May 2022; c 5.]

Thank you for your evidence, Mr Middleton. We appreciate your time and your written submission. If anything else occurs to you after you leave the room, or if your recollection expands, do not hesitate to contact us and to put in writing anything that you think would be helpful to the pursuit of our inquiry.

I suspend the meeting to allow for a changeover of witnesses.

We move to the second part of our evidence gathering today. We are pleased to welcome Derek Mackay, who has given us a written submission and is also here to answer questions that the committee wishes to pose. Mr Mackay, you were formerly Minister for Transport and Islands as well as Cabinet Secretary for Finance and the Constitution, and we might ask you questions related to both roles. First, I invite you to make a short opening statement.

I will take you back to 20 August 2015. At the time, you were on leave, but an email was sent to Keith Brown as the Cabinet Secretary for Infrastructure, Investment and Cities. That email covered a range of things, including Jim McColl’s position, but it also spoke about presentational issues. The email said that you—as the minister not only for transport but the islands—were the person who was to lead on the announcement that would subsequently be made. However, as we now know, you did not lead on it; the First Minister led on it. Can you tell us what happened in those intervening days?

How come the First Minister made that announcement at the yard rather than you?

Yes.