Chamber and committees

Do I discern from the briefing and what you have just said that there is a sufficient level of urgency on the part of the Scottish Funding Council and the Scottish Government to implement the recommendations that were made publicly in, I think, June 2021?

Good morning. I welcome everybody to the 22nd meeting in 2022 of the Public Audit Committee. The first item on our agenda is to decide whether to take agenda items 3 and 4 in private. Do members agree to do so?

Members indicated agreement.

I will shortly bring in Willie Coffey, but I will just compare and contrast two of the statistics in your briefing. On the one hand, the student satisfaction rate among full-time students is very high, at 88 per cent; however, the line above that tells us that 27 per cent of full-time further education students withdrew—they dropped out. I can only assume that the students who were surveyed under the satisfaction survey did not include those who had withdrawn.

The figures on the financial sustainability of the sector ring alarm bells, as we have heard already. Another area that is covered in the briefing that is also a cause for concern is the figures that you have produced on student outcomes. Sharon Dowey has questions on that subject.

I have a final question to put to you, on something that you have already alluded to, which is the fact that the Parliament’s Education, Children and Young People Committee is conducting an inquiry into the regionalisation and restructuring of the college sector. Have you given or will you be giving evidence to that committee?

We have had discussions in the context of the section 22 report into South Lanarkshire College about what the point is of regional boards and whether the structure in the sector is too top heavy, with the Scottish Funding Council, regional boards, college boards, principals—now principals/chief executive officers, as many of them describe themselves—vice principals, assistant principals and so on. There are some big questions there, are there not, about whether the management and governance of the sector are as effective as they could be?

Thank you very much. That concludes our questions. The evidence session has raised important issues, as I said earlier, about the financial state of the college sector in Scotland in 2022 and whether it is delivering the outcomes that we all want to see for students.

I thank the Auditor General, Mark McCabe and Carolyn McLeod for their evidence; it has been very helpful, and we shall consider our next steps.

I close the public part of the meeting.

In part, it might be a result of the timing of different surveys. I see that Mark McCabe is nodding at that.

Willie Coffey has more questions in this area.

The principal item on our agenda this morning is consideration of the Auditor General for Scotland’s briefing on “Scotland’s colleges 2022”. Our witnesses from Audit Scotland, who are in the committee room, are: the Auditor General for Scotland, Stephen Boyle; Carolyn McLeod, audit director, performance audit and best value; and Mark McCabe, audit manager. You are all very welcome.

Auditor General, as you know, you should feel free to bring in your supporting wing members at the points at which you would find it most useful to do so and when that would be most enlightening for the committee. I ask you to kick off by giving a short opening statement.

Thank you very much. We have questions that touch on all the areas that you have outlined in your opening statement, which is very helpful in setting the scene.

The most striking expression that is used in the briefing—it is used twice—is that the finances are “healthier than expected”, although it is clear that Scotland’s colleges are still in a precarious financial position. Could you say a little more about the “healthier than expected” position? Colleges are viewed by many people as public sector institutions, and most public sector institutions were not eligible to qualify for the coronavirus job retention scheme or furlough moneys, for example, or for other Covid grants that were available to businesses. Could you explain a little more about how it came to pass that Scotland’s colleges drew down on that money to such an extent that you offer that as an explanation of their financial position being rosier than might otherwise have been expected?