Chamber and committees

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 21st meeting in 2023 of the Public Audit Committee.

The first item on our agenda is a declaration of interests. I invite Graham Simpson, who joins the committee in place of Craig Hoy, to declare any relevant interests.

When can we expect to see that methodology?

Thank you. I will bring you back in, Willie.

One thing that witnesses did not mention, but which is also quite important, is the electric vehicle charging network. You talked about “ramping up” when it comes to housing and buildings and so on, but you are selling off ChargePlace Scotland and withdrawing from that provision. I do not know whether it might be a question for the Cabinet sub-committee, Mr Brannen, because it might be a policy question, but why is it that the Government is pulling out of that £65 million-worth of investment in EV charge points and handing it over to the private sector?

Okay.

In answer to my last question, Mr Brannen, you said that you accepted in full the recommendations and findings of the Audit Scotland report. One of the starkest passages in the report is on page 16, is it not? I will quote what the Auditor General found. The report states that

“The Scottish Government does not routinely carry out carbon assessments or capture the impact of spending decisions on its carbon footprint in the long term.”

Secondly, it states that

“The Scottish Government does not assess how far the policies outlined in the Climate Change Plan Update will contribute to net zero”,

and, thirdly, it states that

“The Scottish Government does not know how much the policies proposed in the current Climate Change Plan Update will cost”.

What was your reaction to reading that in the report?

In summary, you are saying that, by the time that we get the next climate change plan, all those criticisms will have been addressed.

Mr Brannen, I know that you have reflected on the fact that we had an evidence session just before the summer recess on major capital projects, which covered some this ground, but how do you—as the director general of net zero and the accountable officer—account for some of the figures that we saw?

On the emergency energy technologies fund, the planned expenditure is £180 million, but the actual spend is £10 million. On the low-carbon manufacturing challenge fund, the planned expenditure is £26 million, but the actual expenditure is £750,000. On the heat network fund, the planned expenditure is £300 million, but the actual spend is £6.4 million. Finally, on the future transport fund bus priority investment, the planned expenditure is £495 million, but the actual spend is £26 million. Your are in charge of that. What is your reaction to that?

Okay. On that note, I draw this morning’s evidence session to a close. I thank Roy Brannen, Kersti Berge and Phil Raines for their time and input—it has been very helpful for us. It may be that we would like to follow up a few things with you, which I am sure that you will be happy to co-operate with us on.

I close the public part of this meeting.

Can I bring this back to something that you do have control of? You mentioned in response to Colin Beattie’s questions earlier that—partly, I presume, in the light of the Audit Scotland report—you had reviewed the governance arrangements and the balance of responsibility with regard to what was there formerly. That was described during the audit as the “engine room”—Mr Raines’s committee, the deputy director network—and you said that there has now been a shift very much towards what you keep referring to as the GCE board, which I presume is the global climate emergency board, if I understand it correctly.

Two things arise from that for the committee. First, can you send us a copy of the new governance structure as it is now constituted? Secondly—and it appears to me that you would have control over this—I understood from the answer to the direct question that the implication of that change in governance structure was that you will not be publishing the minutes of the deputy director network. Will you be publishing the minutes of the GCE board?

The principal item on our agenda is consideration of the Audit Scotland report “How the Scottish Government is set up to deliver climate change goals: Governance and risk management arrangements for net zero targets and adaptation outcomes”—I might just use the shorter title for the remainder of the meeting.

We are pleased to welcome three witnesses from the Scottish Government to give us evidence on the report. Alongside Roy Brannen, who is the director general net zero, is Kersti Berge, who is the director of energy and climate change. They are joined by Phil Raines, who is the deputy director for domestic climate change.

We have a number of questions to ask but, before we get to them, I ask you to make a short opening statement, Mr Brannen.