Chamber and committees

We will move on to an issue that we have skirted around throughout the morning, which is the sequencing of the legislation and the co-design process and how you want to see that work. I will go to James Dornan to start off questions on that theme.

Do you think that moving away from the time-and-task model has meant that fewer people are getting into crisis? It would be helpful if you could mention how your approach contributes to some of the lowest delayed-discharge figures in the country.

I hand over to Evelyn Tweed.

I want to respond to something that Margaret McCarthy has said a couple of times. Margaret, you said that, during the pandemic, staff had autonomy to make decisions based on client need without the system dictating what they should do and that they felt valued because they had that autonomy but that, since the pandemic, people feel less valued. Do you think that those two things go hand in hand? Has the system come back in and taken away the autonomy? How do you see the national care service being able to provide a framework so that the autonomy comes back and there are better outcomes for staff and the people they care for?

I will move on to the final theme of measuring success and hand over to Paul O’Kane.

It is always difficult when people are online. I apologise, and I will bring in Margaret McCarthy now.

I thank all of you for your time this morning. The session has been very helpful. I am particularly glad that you have given suggestions on what you want to see in the bill and the process. That will be extremely helpful for us as we put together our report.

We will pause for 10 minutes to allow for a change of witnesses.

Presumably, that would be done to inform the secondary legislation that will fill in some of the detail on how the service will work.

Does Tess White have a follow-up question?

Our substantive item of business today is consideration of the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill. We will have two evidence sessions and both panels will focus on ethical commissioning and procurement and the long-term sustainability of social care services. Our first panel of witnesses are with us and I welcome them.

In the room, we have Rachel Cackett, who is the chief executive officer of the Coalition of Care and Support Providers in Scotland; Karen Hedge, who is deputy chief executive of Scottish Care; Geri McCormick, who is head of commissioning at the Glasgow city integration joint board; and Julie Welsh, who is chief executive of Scotland Excel. Joining us online, we have Sandra MacLeod, who is the chief officer at Aberdeen city health and social care partnership.

We move straight to questions, and I will start by asking about the proposal on care boards. I am particularly interested in what Geri McCormick and Sandra MacLeod think, given the arrangements in which they are involved, about the potential for care boards to integrate services more. The committee has heard that there are things that integration joint boards and health and social care partnerships cannot do, hence the need for care boards. What are the current arrangements for procurement of services? Who is involved? Who is round the table with voting rights? How might care boards promote further integration?

I will bring Geri McCormick in first, and then Sandra MacLeod, who is joining us online.