Chamber and committees

If stigma is an issue, as the evidence suggests, what can be done, Stuart?

ME has a lot of similarities with long Covid. ME sufferers have talked for years about stigma—being dismissed as lazy and so on. Have we learned anything fae ME that we can bring to the table here, Rob?

Jane Ormerod, are we seeing stigma with regard to the response of professional services?

Ian Mullen, what about the workplace and employers? Is there stigma there as well?

I want to look at the issue of stigma. Our papers refer to a recent study that said that 95 per cent of people with long Covid reported experiencing stigma related to their condition. Have you experienced or been told about discrimination as a result of long Covid? I will start with Sammie.

Thank you.

It would be good to see the report. You mentioned the tight financial constraints in which the Government is currently working. There is going to have to be some prioritisation, and I am sure that the taxpayer would say that we want to ensure that we get the best bang for our buck. Whether it is one arm of Government or another—whatever it is—it is all taxpayers’ money. Is there a need, as part of the review, to look at how we maximise what we get for our buck? I look forward to seeing the report.

You also mentioned gender and disability. Last week, I got a note from a senior lecturer at the University of St Andrews, in which he said that there are shocking gender, race and disability pay gaps across the sector. According to the university’s own figures from 2021, men were paid an average of 20.2 per cent more than women, while as of 2020, white employees were paid an average of 5.6 per cent more than employees of colour. Those disparities are shocking and are entirely within the power of the university to undo. What is the role of Government in addressing those kinds of disparities?

Turning to the care sector, there is a clear divide between the public and private sectors in pay and terms and conditions, and people are choosing not to go into a particular sector as a result. Is there a role for Government in looking at the inequalities, such as the gender and disability pay gaps, in sectors such as care? Does the Government need to do more to try to address those issues in order to get people back into the labour market?

We visited a number of projects last week in Airdrie, which was very interesting. Routes to Work and Remploy were running specific projects through fair start, and I have a couple of questions on that. How are Government schemes such as fair start evaluated, and do you have up-to-date reports on them? How successful or otherwise are they? What we saw was very impressive, but people we talked to raised mental health on a number of occasions as being a barrier to getting into work. The one-to-one support that they had received was very successful in getting them into work. Where are we at with all that?

Given that we are trying to reach people who are well removed from the labour market and need a lot of support in place, what kind of joined-up working is there? There is a brief from the Scottish Government, the UK Government is involved through the Department for Work and Pensions and Jobcentre Plus and local government is involved, although there are reduced economic and community development activities due to cuts. The third sector is also involved, so there are a lot of different schemes and organisations trying to help. Is there a joined-up strategy, and are people working together? Is there a need to do more around that?

Jack Jones wants to come in on that.

I will now move on to the skills agenda, starting with a question for Chris Brodie.

During the earlier session, I mentioned that, in some European countries, there are brilliant examples of companies—a lot of the big car manufacturers, including Ford and Volvo, do this—that have set up academies, which, crucially, are for everyone in their workforce. In Germany, I once looked at a car manufacturer that has an academy purely for cleaning—the cleaners are probably the best qualified in the world. The training extends to SMEs—and, indeed, to all parts of the supply chain, with everyone coming together—with the employer taking responsibility for that. Can we learn from that?

Also, given that the TUC is on the call, what is the role of trade unions in lifelong learning? The TUC has done a lot of work on lifelong learning over the years, through Unionlearn and so on. Is there more that employers and unions, in partnership with Government, should do to ensure that people have the opportunity to reskill throughout their lives as and when required? Seven million people in the UK lack the basic skills of numeracy and literacy, so should we be using a partnership approach to do more, and do we need new policies?