Chamber and committees

Thank you. I assumed that the Law Society would want to ensure that the legislation that is going through Parliament is first of all clear; secondly, that it is supported by evidence; and thirdly, that it is going through the most appropriate route.

If the Government comes back in two weeks and says that the scheme will be extended to attendances of more than 8,000 or 6,000 or 4,000 at a football game, would we be satisfied that it has gone through the correct measures? Was the House of Commons Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee correct when it said that the scientific evidence for that step is not there and that it should come through primary legislation so that it can be properly scrutinised and understood by the public?

Yes.

Brian Whittle spoke about opening up international travel. In your role as cabinet secretary, is there a balancing act between people wanting the situation to go back to how it was before and the Government’s policy on climate? A lot of people would ask why on earth we would want to go back to how it was pre-Covid.

Do you have regular contact with the UK Government in your work on those issues? Are both Governments working closely together? Are you satisfied and happy with the relationship?

We need to minimise the risk, and the steps that are being taken to do so are correct, but we spoke recently to public health experts who said that if a variant emerges anywhere in the world, it is almost certainly, short of them locking down their borders, going to get into other countries.

That being the case, I suppose that my question is about whether we are giving people a false sense of security. Should we be demanding collective action around the world because we need to prevent variants from emerging, and is the way to do that to vaccinate everyone around the world? What is your view on that?

Can you provide the committee with the evidence on which you have based your decision on nightclubs and these—perhaps four—football clubs? As well as that, can you provide the committee with the other options and the evidence that you looked at? I understand why you want to maximise compliance with vaccine take-up, but the committee needs to know by next week exactly what the decision is based on, what you hope to achieve from it and what other options you have looked at.

I will absolutely praise everyone involved in the roll-out of the vaccination programme, but from what you have said this morning, it seems that we have a problem of compliance among the under-40s, and you are introducing this step to try to increase the number of under-40s getting vaccinated. Before next week, you need to show us the evidence for why the specific measures that you have talked about have been chosen, what you believe will be achieved and what other options have been considered for increasing uptake among the under-40s. I absolutely support the vaccination programme and any action to increase vaccination, but we need to see the evidence that the decision is based on.

Finally, with regard to compliance, I note that in some places, particularly shops, there seems to have been a relaxation with regard to people wearing face coverings. If you are going to introduce new measures, you should also ensure that the measures that are currently in place are being enforced. This week, workers from different chains of shops have told me that, in some shops, people—again, the young in particular, but the group is growing—are simply not complying with the requirement to wear face coverings. What action can the Government take, working with retailers, to look at the increasing problem of people simply not complying?

Deputy First Minister, you were clear in saying that the proposal is about maximising compliance, but what evidence are you basing that on? You want to introduce passports for nightclubs and probably about four football clubs in Scotland. Unfortunately, my football club, Kelty Hearts, will not require them. Where is the evidence to show that the measure will maximise compliance with vaccination? What evidence is it based on and what is the science? What are the numbers? Not every young person under 30 goes to nightclubs—the majority in Scotland probably do not. The proposal is aimed at increasing and maximising compliance with vaccination, but where is the evidence for it?

On that specific point, Mr Swinney, the industry has raised several concerns, one of which is that people who require to be tested say that there is a monopoly in the provision of tests, which means that the tests are far more expensive than would otherwise be the case. Have you heard of that or looked at the issue?

I feel compelled to say something, given that everybody else has spoken. There are a few areas to consider if no other committee covers them. I watched the Westminster select committees’ recent interviews with Mr Cummings. As has been said, it is easy to be a professor of hindsight, but it is clear that Governments in the United Kingdom were not prepared for a pandemic. We might say, “Why would they be?” To make a mistake once is one thing, but we should not make it twice. There are questions about how Governments prepare and how we in Scotland prepare, given that scientists say that such events could occur more frequently. How can we be better prepared?

When we come back after the recess, I would like the committee to do early work on something that relates to what Jim Fairlie raised. Out there, it is strange that we can go into some places to meet people and feel almost as if everything is back to normal. That is the case in some industries and key sectors; indeed, some people have worked as usual throughout the pandemic. However, other sectors are not back to normal and will not be back to normal soon. The aviation sector jumps to mind. Who knows where we will be with it?

We need to know what challenges those key sectors face, including those that Jim Fairlie has such an interest in, and which are worst hit. We need to know that, because the Government needs to know it quickly. Where will additional support be needed? Even if we open up and go back to zero later this year, some sectors will still be struggling. The committee’s having a better understanding of that would help us in our work and help us to focus on holding Government to account in supporting those sectors.