Chamber and committees

Would Ms Hamilton accept that I did not say that there was no public benefit?

This group is quite straightforward, with Rachael Hamilton going in one direction and me going in another.

I and many others support the proposals that the Scottish Government has set out in the bill. However, it is important that NatureScot’s wider conservation functions are not diminished in any way and that the administration costs of trapping, grouse shooting and muirburn licences are covered in full by applicants. NatureScot is taking on significant additional licensing functions as part of the bill, and I think that I heard the minister say that NatureScot might need new staff as a result. We do not want NatureScot’s resources for other work to be reduced because of that. Public finances are tight, and if the public purse has to subsidise those licences, it means less money for other important needs. Rachael Hamilton slightly overstates the case when she uses words such as “punish” and “thumbscrews”, but the reality is that money is tight, and £1 extra for subsidising landowners means £1 less for the national health service.

In the context of the climate and nature emergency, we need a strong NatureScot. I understand that NatureScot does not charge for the licensing functions that it administers. However, other organisations, such as the Scottish Environment Protection Agency, already charge for most of their licensing functions. With regard to firearms licence administration, via Police Scotland, the public already bears the cost, to a large extent, of what is largely a private benefit.

In this case, the aim of the Wildlife Management and Muirburn (Scotland) Bill is explicitly about addressing the illegal persecution of raptors that is associated with grouse shooting and to improve trapping and muirburn practice to prevent damage to public interests. Grouse shooting is largely a private benefit linked to land ownership, so it feels inequitable to many that the public should have to cover the costs of such licences, especially when, in the context of grouse shooting, the legislation is designed to address the long-standing illegal behaviours of some practitioners. The legislation is intended to act as a meaningful deterrent to illegal behaviours and bad practice in land management. If the licence applicant has to pay the administration costs of the licensing service, it could also be argued that they will have greater investment in the process and will focus more on what they are asked to deliver—namely, the licence conditions set by NatureScot for the receipt of a licence to operate trapping, grouse shooting and muirburn.

I gather that there is due to be a licensing review at some point. The minister referred to that when I asked her a question in the chamber in December. It would be good to hear from the minister what her current thinking is on the subject of full cost recovery, the timescale of any review and whether she is minded to support charging for the specific licensing functions that are related to the bill.

Does the minister agree that the figures in the financial memorandum are estimates? In some cases, they appear to be quite clear estimates in relation to the bill that we are discussing, but the estimates relating to many other bills are incredibly rough. Does she accept that a guideline in the financial memorandum is certainly not fixed in stone?

I return to the convener’s line of questioning on administration costs. Paragraph 47 of the financial memorandum mentions a figure of £61 million. I was a little unclear about its other mention of 11 per cent. What was that £61 million 11 per cent of?

Is that IT refresh or whatever in your budget for the coming year?

Mr Halcro Johnston referred to the crisis reserve. Is that the same as the national reserve that is referred to?

That would be less than 10 per cent.

I just wondered whether it was referring to a different figure, or whether I was misreading it.

I am sorry—that was a little unfair of me. I think that you are saying that that will be one of the factors that you consider when you look at how we might go forward. If one particular scheme could be run easily compared to another scheme that would be complex to run, you would take into account the cost of administration.

Paragraph 56 of the financial memorandum talks about the transition costs, which are to be £64 million. I assume that that is a one-off cost and will happen over a period but not be repeated. The following paragraph goes on to say that implementation costs are not included. It says:

“These costs are currently excluded”.

Will you explain to me the difference between transition costs and implementation costs and why the implementation costs are excluded?