Chamber and committees

It almost seems to be the opposite of what we normally do in the courts, which is to assume innocence until guilt is proven. It seems that we are assuming guilt until innocence is proven. Is that fair?

Okay. Thanks.

Ms Young, if we throw in “good reason” and “exceptional circumstances” all over the place, will that cover all eventualities, or will it just make it all very vague?

That is an extremely helpful answer.

I will move on to Ms Connock and widen out the question. We are asking whether the balance is right between value for money on the one hand and human rights on the other. Mr Clancy raised the point that, if the system was entirely voluntary, nobody would give any information. Are there enough safeguards in place? Do you have anything to say on that, Ms Connock?

Do our other three witnesses have any comments?

Would the counter to that not be that Social Security Scotland is built on different foundations? Given that it is meant to be a more caring system, does there have to be so much checking?

That was helpful. Mr Clancy, do you want to say a final word?

I will press you on that. What is the logic for backdated payments? I can see why a funeral payment, which is a one-off payment, would need to be backdated. However, if the payment is for food or heating, that issue has already passed, as it were—the person has already gone without food or heating. What is the logic of a backdated payment in such circumstances?

Mr Clancy, from a legal point of view, should people always be entitled to late payments, and should there be a limit to how far back they can go?

Would you argue that there should be a 13-week period for everything, with no reason being necessary, or should there just be more flexibility, as Ms Young suggested, given that some benefits are more complicated than others?

I will ask about part 6 of the bill, which is on the provision of information. I will go first to Mr Clancy, although not for a legal point of view. Do you have any comments on the balance in the provisions in this part of the bill between the right to social security and the principle that Social Security Scotland must ensure that it gets value for money and that it does not pay out to people who should not be entitled to benefits?