Chamber and committees

I know that it is, convener. I am not criticising you in any way, shape, or form; I am criticising the legislation as it has been formulated over many years.

As we move forward and reach new definitions, if that is where we go, I wonder whether we can bear in mind the work that has been undertaken during Lord John Scott’s mental health law review, so that what we come up with there, as that goes through the legislative process, becomes embedded, if you like, in your regulations. Do you think that that can be done?

You also spoke about community ownership, which brings me to a point about experiences and outcomes. In your initial comments, you or one of your colleagues mentioned Aberdeen Community Energy’s Donside community hydro project, which is community owned and took place long before we even thought of a just transition. How do we capture the knowledge and data that has been gathered by that community and its leaders Sinclair Laing and Jane Fullerton? How do we capture those experiences to allow other communities to achieve their potential and reach their goals, as Donside village has done?

Can I ask just one final question, convener?

How do we get communities to help you to build that place-based just transition data dashboard?

I want to ask about a number of issues that are related to data and measurements, but also to outcomes and experience. I have never come across an academic who has said that we do not need any more data. I recognise that there are data gaps—witnesses might want to highlight where they think some of those gaps are, but first I want to tease out areas that you have already mentioned where there could be difficulties in relation to data, and where sometimes we tie ourselves in knots.

Let me give you an example of when we sometimes tie ourselves in knots. Witnesses have said that we need to create a standardised classification of green jobs because the current industry and occupational classifications are not detailed enough. I will use an example from a conversation that I had the other week about how we are not producing enough software engineers and how we need to boost the educational prospects of folk who want to enter software engineering. How could we classify whether a software engineer is working in a green capacity or in a green job?

Could witnesses cover some of those gaps and foibles in data gathering?

I will move on a little bit. We have talked quite a lot about eligibility and criteria. Again, you have said that you would be flexible in relation to looking at change and not simply allowing this for folk with compulsory treatment orders. The convener talked about some other aspects of law and some of the old-fashioned criteria that are often in those laws. I think that the convener used the term “severely mentally impaired”, which does not sit well with me, I have to say.

It is very brief.

I am a former Minister for Mental Wellbeing and Social Care, and, having established a number of lived experience panels, I can say that those do not have to be formal. Folk will often gladly tell you their tale for the simple reason that they do not want anyone else to go through what they have gone through.

My very strong suggestion in relation to the work as we go forward is that you, minister, in collaboration with the Minister for Social Care, Mental Wellbeing and Sport, ask some of the lived experience panels that already exist regarding what their life experience of that kind of situation has been. That would help to formulate much better regulations.

Minister, it was good to hear you say that we should start small and move to expand. We have heard from people that there has to be flexibility in the regulations and the ability to adapt as we move forward. You said that most of this has been stakeholder led, but how many voices of lived experience have you heard in the formulation of the bill and, indeed, will you hear as we move forward towards the regulations?

I have a question before we move on. You have hit upon a couple of points. You talked about Government and industry sharing data, but we have heard that there is lack of communication with communities, and the data and knowledge that we have is often not passed on to communities. Would it be fair to say that we need to do more in that regard?