Chamber and committees

We also discussed hydrogen production and the biorefinery project earlier this morning, and the previous panel was keen to talk about importing sustainable aviation fuel. Have you had any discussions with the UK Government and other partners about manufacturing sustainable aviation fuel? As an Orcadian, you will realise the essential role that aviation will continue to play in Scotland as we move forward. What can be done to try to ensure that Scotland plays a part in manufacturing SAF? Can that be done at Grangemouth as part of the just transition?

There was also some discussion earlier this morning about energy security and the impacts of international markets. In relation to the import hub plan, the previous panel made a point about diesel coming in at Finnart and going to Grangemouth through the existing pipeline, but I asked a question about the carbon footprint of importing that diesel. You talked about the international market and about refineries in China and the middle east being much more modern and competitive, but the carbon footprint of importing from China, the middle east or wherever it may be is huge. It may well be that our carbon footprint will reduce if there is no refinery at Grangemouth, but the carbon footprint of importing could be greater.

I recognise that this is the UK Government’s responsibility, but have you looked at whether we could utilise the Forties pipeline to take crude from the North Sea basin and continue to refine at the likes of Grangemouth? From an energy security point of view in this weird and wonderful world that we live in, that would probably be the best way. It would also cut down our carbon footprint compared with importing diesel, petrol and kerosene—and, in the future, the likes of SAF.

Sure.

I am aware of the high sulphur content and the fact that crude from the North Sea basin goes elsewhere. There was talk of other refineries in north-west Europe earlier. However, maybe there could be investment in a new modernised refinery—if the UK Government was willing to do that—to take account of the high sulphur content of crude from the North Sea basin in order to get to the right end products, such as diesel, petrol and kerosene. I am no expert on this, but I have been told on many occasions by folks who are experts that refineries have a peak point in dealing with certain crudes. Maybe we could do that at Grangemouth as we move on.

Is it worth having that discussion with the UK Government, which has the primary responsibility, in order to ensure that we continue to have energy security and to stop the importing and reduce the carbon footprint?

There was no demand in your original business plan to ensure that you were supplying the refinery.

Just mix it all up, please.

It is the importation aspect that gets me. We are talking a lot about energy security. Let us look at this in layman’s terms. We have the North Sea basin producing crude. You are refining that crude into various products.

That is my point. Do we need to import as much crude, and cannot we utilise the North Sea basin and what it is producing to a greater degree? I recognise that there are different types of crude and all the rest of it—

I am sorry to interrupt, but one reason why I asked the question is that this is not just about Scotland. It is also about the set-up of the refineries in the rest of the UK and even in the Amsterdam, Rotterdam and Antwerp triangle that Petroineos talked about. What is the situation in the north-west of Europe at the moment? How old are the refineries and what are their capabilities?

We recognise that oil and gas will still have some part to play in the future—a significant part, in some instances—and it would be much better to deal with that here than to import from some of the more modern refineries in the middle east and China that have been mentioned, not only from the carbon footprint point of view, but also from the energy security point of view. We have to look at the issue holistically. I will ask the UK Government those questions when it comes to the committee.

Yes, there is quite a lot.