Chamber and committees

Why do we still have so many teachers on short-term contracts? Who wants to answer that? Douglas, do you want to have a go?

Do you recognise that there is a significant difference between the fees that are paid for council nurseries and those that are paid in the PVI sector?

The outcome seems to be that the PVI sector is losing significant numbers of experienced staff. It is not able to retain them because the sector cannot pay rates that are competitive with other the rates of other organisations inside or outside the sector. They are really worried about the sector’s future. Do you not recognise that?

Does that make it any better?

To be honest, I am really disappointed by that response. Last year, Matthew Sweeney from COSLA acknowledged that there was a significant difference, and it was agreed, right at the beginning, between Government and local authorities that that would happen.

We see real threats to the sector now. The PVI bodies are getting staff, but they need to keep experienced staff. I worry about the integrity of bodies and that we will, perhaps, in the future get Care Inspectorate reports that indicate that we have not managed to keep up with the standards that you mentioned earlier. I am disappointed that you do not recognise that.

In that light, do you think that we are educating too many primary school teachers?

Neatly dodged.

You are absolutely right that the situation is “historical” and “baked in”, but people’s expectations of the PVI sector are almost exactly the same as they are of council nurseries. People expect the same service from both, when it comes to care and education. So, although you are right, that does not make the situation right. We need to work on a plan to bring them closer together, do we not? Do we need to bring them closer together?

Mr Bain, thank you for the clarity with which you are speaking this morning, which is helpful. You mentioned Insight. Is Insight part of the problem? Are we measuring the right things with Insight?

I am interested in how you view the state of the PVI sector in early learning and childcare. What are the pressures? Perhaps Carrie could talk us through that first.