Chamber and committees

That was a comprehensive answer. Does anyone want to add to that?

Thank you for that. All the committees have been hearing that point with regard to the national care service.

I have a follow-up question about the progress that Parliament has made. None of us is saying that change does not have to happen, but, over the past decade, there have been reforms, such as the integration of health and social care—Rachel Cackett and I both worked on the Health and Care (Staffing) (Scotland) Act 2019—self-directed support, which we have already touched on, and carers breaks under the Carers (Scotland) Act 2016. Those reforms have not necessarily all been delivered, so could the move towards creating another organisation undermine those policies? We want all that progress to happen and we want it not to get lost in translation. What is your view on that? Rachel, do you want to kick off?

At the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee meeting on Tuesday, I asked the same question. After this evidence session, the minister is coming in. What would you say to him? I will start with Sheena Arthur. I know that you are online, and we have not brought you in.

I thank the panel members for joining us this morning.

I have a couple of questions about employment. What is your understanding, based on the bill as it stands, of who the employer would actually be?

No. It is okay—I will stop there.

Thank you. Does anyone have other points to make?

In our earlier evidence session, we heard about the diverse fabric of the social care sector and different models of interconnectivity between the NHS, councils, housing associations and employability services. However, I want to focus on homelessness provision, because that will not necessarily be transferred and it is not in the bill. There are concerns about the direct impact that the bill—and other bits of legislation that are coming forward—will have on the homelessness sector. What will be put in place to ensure effective joint working between homelessness services and the national care service?

I agree on that point.

Finally, minister—

We have left the most important theme until last. We need to see how the bill will deliver for unpaid carers.

During consideration of the bill that became the Carers (Scotland) Act 2016, another Aberdonian, Nanette Milne—whom, I know, the minister knows well—lodged amendments to put in place breaks for carers. That was really important at the time, but it has not been delivered, partly due to the fact that support plans are not being delivered or commissioned. Statistics show that only about 20,000 of the estimated 339,000 unpaid carers are able to access those plans. How will the bill ensure that that situation is turned around and that unpaid carers actually get those breaks?

As the bill progresses, I will want to make sure, through amendments, that that is delivered.

The minister started the evidence session by saying—the cabinet secretary also said this when he launched the bill—that the bill will end the postcode lottery of care in Scotland. We all want to see that, but this framework bill has been designed around the NHS. We have a postcode lottery in our NHS, and ministers are responsible for policy direction and delivery, so why will this be different?

I represent Edinburgh, which has some of the worst delayed discharge rates and some of the highest homelessness numbers in the country, and I worry that the bill will not necessarily change that. What learning will ministers who have been responsible for the NHS for 16 years bring to the bill?