Chamber and committees

Perhaps you could help me out, minister. I want to find out a bit more about the spending limits. The expenses limit of £740 is being increased. When was that limit put in place, and when was that sum last reviewed?

As I had hoped. [Laughter.] Maybe that is something to do with the broadcasting team.

I was asking about the £740 expenses limit, which has been reviewed. When was that amount set, and when was it last reviewed?

I suspect that it has been some time since you were a councillor, minister, but how many councillors were asked whether they thought that the spending limits were correct, and did that happen in every geographical area? It is much easier to deliver leaflets in your area than it is in, say, the north of Scotland, where there are huge geographical areas to cover. How many councillors were asked and what were their opinions?

My question relates to category 5, which is houses, land and buildings. Is paragraph 4.18 on registrable interests in houses, land and buildings compatible with or an equivalent standard to that for MSPs? Are the two the same? I am not convinced that they are. If they are not, could that lead to confusion?

I am now totally confused. It has been suggested that the figure is aligned with the MSP code, while the obligation in paragraph 4.18 that I previously asked about is not. One argument goes one way, and another goes the other way.

In any case, the £25,000 figure seems fairly arbitrary. It is a lot of money, but then £10,000 is a lot of money, as is £1,000. I do not understand where the figure has been plucked from; after all, it is not as if a £25,000 investment in the Royal Bank of Scotland, for example, would give you a controlling interest in it. As I have said, the figure seems arbitrary, and I would like some clarity on how it has been selected. Just rolling it forward from the previous code does not make it acceptable.

I am sorry, convener—I was gazing happily at the microphone to see whether it had been unmuted.

First, I absolutely believe that it is in the interests of all public bodies and elected individuals to comply with the highest standards of behaviour and to be open with the people who elected or appointed them, and I would never move from that position. However, I am concerned that paragraph 4.19 of the draft model code does not reflect the requirement in the MSP code; in fact, the declaration is more onerous. At the same time, the explanation for paragraph 4.20(b) was that it was put in because it complied exactly with the requirement on MSPs. There is therefore a slight mismatch in that respect.

I do not want to hold this up, convener, but I believe that it is important that members of public bodies do not have to—or are not made to think that they have to—declare their private residence as part of any declaration that they might wish to make. That should fall outwith the scope of any declaration, as is the case for MSPs. Moreover, the £25,000 figure in paragraph 4.20(b) seems to me to be extremely arbitrary, which is why I sought clarity on it.

I know that you have to consider the committee’s position, convener, given the limited time that we have before the matter has to be considered by the Parliament. As I have said, I do not wish to hold this up. However, should the matter come before Parliament before I have had sufficient answers to my questions, I reserve the opportunity to comment on the motion at that time. At the moment, I do not think that the proposal is equitable or fair to members of public bodies, and we have not had a suitable explanation of the £25,000 figure.

I will try to articulate my concern more clearly. Paragraph 4.18 states:

“I have a registrable interest where I own or have any other right or interest in houses, land and buildings”.

You will be aware that MSPs do not have to register their private houses or record them in their entry in the register of members’ interests. I wonder whether that specific matter might cause confusion to people on public bodies. They might feel that they have to register their private houses, which goes beyond what MSPs are requested to do.

I think that Bob Doris has a question, too, convener.

My only concern about this is the emphasis on declaring one’s private residence, which we MSPs do not have to do. It would be useful to remove one’s private residence from the requirement to bring things into line with what we do and to make everything equitable and fair.

I have a question about paragraph 4.20(b), which refers to a registrable interest

“Where, at the relevant date, the market value of any shares and securities (in any one specific company or body) that I own or have an interest in is greater than £25,000.”

Will the minister please explain where the £25,000 figure came from?

Having been on the doorsteps, I know that the issue was very much just about delivering leaflets. Candidates were not encouraged to engage with people on doorsteps until the very last part of the campaign, when a lot of the postal votes had already been sent. There were certainly no public meetings or hustings, which was difficult for candidates.

Taking it to the next level, I understand why candidates were restricted but, if that is to happen again, should we consider whether there should be an increased budget for candidates to get their message out? For example, the budget for a candidate in a constituency remained the same in 2021 as it was in 2016. It went up in 2011, but the constituency limit for party spending has remained the same since 2011 and the figure is very little. If candidates are to be restricted in how we can get our message out on the doorsteps, surely we should have an increased ability to use media and postal systems to get our message out. That was probably the safest way to do it.