Chamber and committees

I think that we do learn some things from tracking projects. David Brown would probably reflect that there are wild salmon near Shetland, because some salmon go up past there on their way north.

Tavish, if I may, I note that, when you came into the meeting, you were quite aggressive to the members who challenged you on a particular point. Do you think that it is right for people to have an ability to challenge you and to question whether what the industry is doing is right? You were pretty forceful against them.

I remind the committee that my interest in salmon fishing on the River Spey is declared in my entry in the register of members’ interests. The fishery employs three people and has been in the family ownership for more than 73 years. I do not believe that it is directly affected by fish farms, because it is on the east coast of Scotland, not the west coast, where most fish farms are located.

With respect, Ben, I have not mentioned wild salmon and I have not been negative. On the basis of your comments to the REC Committee on 2 May 2018, I asked you whether you thought that that was a reasonable comment to make and, if it was, how long you thought that we would have a mortality rate of between 20 and 25 per cent. I never mentioned sea lice and I do not accept that sea lice are the biggest problem that you face. As you have made clear this morning, there are other problems. Therefore, will you answer the question of how long you think that the industry will sit at between 20 and 25 per cent mortality of fish at sea?

Please do not think that I am being negative. In the last committee meeting, I tried to stop a moratorium, and that is what happened. Give me a little bit of leeway, Ben.

My final point to you is that I think that I reasonably question you and I reasonably challenge the industry.

On 25 October 2023, at 14:30, when you came into my office, one of your comments, which I note word for word, because it was taken down for me, was:

“This issue and your attitude are top of the agenda for the next Board meeting. The Board are very unhappy with you and are willing to take action against you, unless you retract your comments in the Parliament.”

Do you think that that is a respectful way to engage with the Parliament?

I am happy to leave it there. If I may, I was trying to identify that people have a right to challenge the industry and question it, so that we can make the industry in Scotland the industry that we want it to be and one that contributes to our export industry. However, I find it difficult when I am being physically or verbally attacked for doing just that.

I will leave it there. I apologise if I spoke over you, convener.

Okay.

I am going to talk briefly about the financial memorandum, which I guess anyone would describe as thin gruel. The Government, in its defence, would say that it will not cost anything to come up with a climate change plan, because it was coming up with something anyway, and that it already has all the resources it needs to come up with the carbon budgets. However, the bill relies on subordinate legislation to set up the carbon budgets and the climate change plan, and they will have a cost and will not necessarily have financial memorandums.

Claudia Cowie, you were quite forthright, I think, in your submission on behalf of your organisation. I am trying to remember the exact words that you used—you probably have them in front of you. If I remember rightly, you said that there was not enough time and not enough detail. Is that a good or bad synopsis?

The next agenda item is the third day of evidence taking on the Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill, which seeks to amend the current approach to the setting of interim greenhouse gas emission reduction targets in Scotland.

I am delighted to welcome Claudia Cowie, team leader, sustainability and climate change, Aberdeenshire Council; Alison Leslie, team leader, climate and sustainability policy, Aberdeen City Council; Mike Rivington, senior scientist at the James Hutton Institute; Jamie Brogan, head of climate partnerships at the Edinburgh Climate Change Institute; and Cornilius Chikwama, audit director at Audit Scotland.

Thank you very much for taking the time to be here this morning. It was very short notice, so I appreciate the fact that you have found the time to come.

Before we move to questions, I note that the deputy convener has been held up in getting here this morning, but he will be joining us shortly. I also note that two members would like to declare interests. I invite them to do that now.

I put on the record the fact that Cornilius Chikwama, Jamie Brogan and Mike Rivington all nodded their heads wisely. Do you want each of them to respond?