Chamber and committees

Earlier, Mr Mankovskyi mentioned access to nursery places and access to free places for children over three. However, of course, the legislation in Scotland provides places to vulnerable two-year-olds as well. Have you had conversations with local authorities about assessing children from the displaced community to ensure that vulnerable two-year-olds also get that free nursery education?

We have exhausted our questions, so I thank both cabinet secretaries and their officials for their attendance this morning.

I suspend the meeting for five minutes while we change over witnesses.

Good morning, and a warm welcome to the 15th meeting in 2022 of the Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee. Stuart McMillan will join us slightly late, at 9.30, as a substitute for Jenni Minto, and Dr Allan has indicated that he has to leave early, at 11 am.

Our first agenda item is a decision on taking business in private. Are members content to take item 4 in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Item 2 is the Scottish Government resource spending review. I welcome to the committee Kate Forbes, Cabinet Secretary for Finance and the Economy, and Angus Robertson, Cabinet Secretary for the Constitution, External Affairs and Culture. I also welcome from the Scottish Government Kirsty Whyte, team leader on the resource spending review, and Penelope Cooper, director of culture and major events. I thank them all for coming to the committee.

I will open with a question for Ms Forbes. Our submission on the spending review highlighted the need to reappraise the contribution of cultural activities to wider societal benefits, including health and wellbeing. The committee agreed with the evidence from the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, which stated the need for a whole-system approach. To what extent have you factored culture into the review as part of a whole-system approach?

On the back of Ms Forbes’s answer, I will ask Mr Robertson a question about the cost of living crisis and what is happening with inflation. I am interested in the national performance framework data on participation in cultural activity, particularly the lower participation of people from more deprived areas. Do you have any view on how we could increase participation, given the challenges ahead?

I would definitely agree that the pre-meet is the key thing for us in that we do not have an opportunity to feed into that delegation before it meets.

Item 3 is intergovernmental relations. This is our third session in a series of meetings that are focused on post-EU constitutional issues. We are joined by Dr Paul Anderson, senior lecturer in international relations and politics, Liverpool John Moores University; Dr Coree Brown Swan, lecturer in comparative politics, Queen’s University Belfast; and Jess Sargeant, senior researcher, Institute for Government. A warm welcome to you all. We are also joined by the committee’s adviser, Professor Michael Keating, emeritus professor of politics, University of Aberdeen, who might contribute during the meeting.

We have four main themes to explore and about an hour in which to do so. If everyone could be concise with their questions and answers, that would be helpful.

I will start off by asking about some of the committee’s work on IGR mechanisms following the review by the UK and devolved Governments. We have received a lot of evidence that that process has done little to improve the transparency with regard to the UK internal market and common frameworks. Other devolved Parliaments have also shared that comment, as have other committees. What is your view on that? The UK Parliament is perhaps seen to be paramount in the hierarchy. How can the Scottish Parliament push for more visibility on what is happening at intergovernmental relations at that level? I will call each witness in turn. I can see that Jess Sargeant is smiling at me, so I will go to her first.

I do not think that we will take much more from that discussion this morning.

Ms Forbes mentioned that the shift is about a step change in attitudes. Although we have all accepted that the Christie principles are the right way forward, progress has been really slow. The spending review figures are at level 2 because of inflationary pressures, so it would not be tenable to go further at this stage. The review is also outcomes focused. How will you measure the outcomes on preventative spend, wellbeing and the Christie principles?

I have a quick supplementary question about the stage that we are at, the changes after Brexit and building new systems. The Deputy Convener and I attended the Parliamentary Partnership Assembly in Brussels as observers. There is a meeting of ministers and the UK Government before that, but with the delegation made up solely of Westminster members of Parliament and members of the House of Lords, representatives of the devolved Parliaments attended as observers. No one was there from the Seanad because of Ireland’s electoral cycle. The Northern Ireland protocol absolutely dominated the two days of proceedings.

Is there a similar situation elsewhere to that of the PPA in which parliamentary or federal arrangements are not mirrored? At the pre-meeting between the UK Government and ministers, there was no way for us to contribute to or be involved in the discussions as devolved nations. How does that work in other areas?