Chamber and committees

Could I ask the other two gentlemen the same question? Professor Mitchell rightly points out that this raises questions about accountability. Would the organisation of local government have to change so that accountability was enhanced around how it was spending its money? Is empowering local communities possible within the existing framework?

Yes, I would. I thank committee members for giving up their time to listen to what I have to say.

Most people around the table are aware that, during the 15 years that I have been in the Parliament, outdoor education has been a strong personal interest. As time has gone on, I have been struck by how much it means to many members across the political spectrum. You will know from recent members’ business debates and discussions that we have had on the subject that it is capturing the imagination.

In relation to the Covid situation, outdoor education and all the assets that it brings are vital to young people’s wellbeing. It is clear from what members have said in debates that there is an issue in relation to pressures on education and, especially, outdoor education centres.

I have convened the cross-party group on sport for some time. There is a distinction between sport and outdoor education, and one of the gaps in the Parliament is that we do not have a sufficiently discrete group on outdoor education. I spoke to various colleagues across the political spectrum when thinking about setting up the group, and they are very keen that I do so.

That is where we are. I did an informal consultation about it and spoke to a lot of people with whom I have considerable contact in the outdoor education world. We agreed that not only would it help the Parliament to engage with that increasingly important sector but it would help local authorities, schools and people who have a strong interest in the unmeasurable aspect of education, which I would defend as being the most important. We all feel passionately about that.

Those are the basic reasons for the group, convener. I set out its purpose in my paper.

That is correct.

Cabinet secretary, you mentioned the programme for government in an answer to the convener. In your speech about the programme for government, when you talked about trying to encourage economic growth, you said that it is the Scottish Government’s mission

“to create the best conditions for entrepreneurs to seize the opportunities”—[Official Report, 2 June 2021; c 17.]

to increase production and innovation and to create jobs. Obviously, you will have seen statistics from the Scottish Fiscal Commission and, I am sure, will have had advice from your new council of economic advisers, which, I think, is providing some evidence about the period from July to the autumn. Obviously, you are not going to tell us the detail of the budget, and I would not expect that, but where are they trying to focus your attention when it comes to the priorities for that economic growth?

I have two more questions. First, you mentioned the tourism sector. A lot of tourism bodies, particularly in Perthshire, tell me that it is difficult to get people to take up jobs that are there, because they do not actually want the jobs, which is different from not having the right skills. If we look at the statistics for employment and unemployment, we can see that a latent workforce is out there but, in many cases, those people do not want the particular jobs that are on offer, and that is different from the skills agenda. What is the Scottish Government doing to address that problem?

Thank you. My last question is about tax revenues. Obviously, we have heard from many witnesses to the committee that there are demographic issues in relation to Scotland’s ageing population, so the working population is being squeezed. With regard to the overall budget, where is the greatest possibility, from a Scottish perspective, for raising tax revenues that, in turn, would help with Government spending?

That is very helpful indeed. On the reskilling issue, I have heard people such as Sandy Begbie talk about the young persons guarantee from the perspective that, although young people have particular issues at this time, many other issues involve the need to reskill people who have been in the economy, in a job, are perhaps still on furlough but are not necessarily going back to the job that was there before the pandemic. Can I press you a little on what priorities you feel need our attention when it comes to upskilling those who will probably find it very difficult to get back into the labour force?

I will pick up the point that you just raised about looking at spending in the round and trying to get an overview. One of the greatest challenges in politics today is to win the trust of the public—especially the taxpaying public—with regard to where their money is being spent, who is accountable for that spending and what we, as a Parliament and as a committee, are going to do if anything goes wrong with that spending. What are your views on the concern that some MSPs, members of the public and bodies have that, sometimes, we make our judgments about scrutiny and public spending in relation to a specific committee and, as we are doing just now, on specific issues, rather than having a mechanism outwith the budget process that allows us to see the whole thing in the round? That is why I asked you about a finance bill. I acknowledge the concerns about how that would articulate with the Scotland Act 1998.

Do you have a view on whether any other procedures are required to enhance our ability to take an overview of Scotland’s public finances, whether that comes down to better forecasting or whatever? I am interested in what you feel about that.

I have one more question that picks up on the point about additional scrutiny. Last week, the convener asked the Deputy First Minister about how easy it is, when we come to the national performance framework, to drill down on something that is national spend and something that is local government spend. That is very difficult, because it is not easy to see where the money is being spent and who is accountable for it.

Do you have any recommendations for how we could improve the process of understanding where the budget lines are for local government, as opposed to national spend?

I entirely agree with the convener that ensuring transparency and accountability is the biggest job that this committee faces and—dare I say it?—the biggest job that the Parliament faces.

Auditor General, you and your predecessor Caroline Gardner have made clear that you are keen to see additional processes that would enhance transparency. You mentioned the summer revisions and talked about what the Public Accounts Commission could do. Are there structures in this Parliament that could be improved, to enhance scrutiny and accountability? I know that you cannot comment on public policy, but will you say whether a finance bill—a procedure that has not been customary in this Parliament—is a possible way of improving transparency and accountability?