Chamber and committees

Thank you.

Thank you for your presentation, which, as the convener said, was thought provoking. You mentioned that we are dealing with two crises: the biodiversity one and the climate change one. We now have a third crisis: Ukraine.

Notwithstanding the absolutely horrific scenes that we see on our television screens hour by hour, the crisis in Ukraine will have the effect of making us look long and hard at our longer-term energy mix. How significant is that for Governments in terms of their having to apply a more practical approach to achieving net zero? We would all like to drive towards net zero, but, as Germany has found out very quickly, that will not be quite so easily done to the original timescale, because of the practicalities of the situation. Do you think that that is very significant?

Is there then a case for revising the Barnett formula?

I very much agree with that. I raised the point because, as you said at the outset of your submission, if we are to improve the efficiency of public services, it is important that we are able to measure how well the money is being spent, and that is often quite far down the budget line.

That is helpful. Let us take that down to the relationship between Scottish Government spend and local government spend, because the same argument that you have just enunciated for the UK and Scottish Governments applies to the Scottish Government and Scottish local authorities. Could something be done to increase transparency, particularly when it comes to budget line levels 3 and 4, about how well we spend money in local government, which is responsible for a huge number of public services?

Yes.

I am sure that my colleague will come back on some of the details of this, but I am interested as to what the changes are in the economic determinants. It is quite a substantial figure.

Sorry, it is in your table in paper FPA/S6/22/9/1. It is under your figures for education and skills. You have figures for central Government grants to local authorities, higher education, student support, Scottish Funding Council, learning and so on. That figure is against student support, which is all tied up in that support, so I wondered what that was.

If the convener agrees, I am happy for somebody to write to me about that.

That would be helpful. In one of the briefings that Professors Gerry McCormac and Sally Mapstone from Universities Scotland presented not long ago, they were very concerned about getting over this Covid period and providing extra student support to help with that, so I am interested to know what that figure is for.

I will stay on the same theme, Professor Heald. It is an interesting debate whether, from a philosophical angle, devolved and reserved matters should remain separate or whether there is an economic case to have a slight blurring to boost expenditure. In paragraph 10 of your submission, you say that such a blurring can affect transparency because it is not so easy to see where the money is being spent and, more importantly, how well it is being used. You mention “blame shifting” or “credit claiming” and say that it becomes too much of a political matter. Is there a philosophical argument for keeping reserved and devolved matters entirely separate?