Chamber and committees

I want to explore the line of questioning that the convener previously explored in the evidence session with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities. Just for clarity, are the additional moneys that are now baselined in next year’s budget ring fenced, and—if this is not contradictory—are they ring fenced with a degree of flexibility so that, for example, there must be—[Inaudible.]—permanent contracts but the balance between classroom assistants and teachers is up to each local authority to decide on the basis of what best meets local needs? I would get that.

In addition, other than the teacher census, what is the reporting exercise for this? If we increase the number of teachers, that might not involve a significant fall in the number of temporary teachers, because temporary posts could be converted to permanent posts and new teachers could come in for specific projects on a temporary basis—it would not tell the whole story. Will we have a consistent reporting exercise across 32 local authorities, to better understand what is happening with teachers and classroom assistants in Scotland? If the teacher census could do that, that would be great, but, if it cannot, can the Scottish Government do something else so that, in a few months’ time, as part of on-going budget scrutiny, our committee can see what progress has been made?

Thank you, cabinet secretary.

I do not think so, convener. There is a lot for us to digest in private.

That is helpful, cabinet secretary. It was a frank and realistic answer on a budget that is challenging for Scotland’s colleges. In the forthcoming academic year, how will you monitor what that impact will be on colleges? During any financial year, Barnett consequentials become available and the Government can leverage in other spending, so Scotland’s colleges will rightly be looking at how they can get some financial respite and whether some of that money will be leveraged in.

I will give some examples of that. I am not sure whether the core budget for colleges, which I said was challenging, includes the £10 million that colleges spent under the young person’s guarantee in the most recent financial year or the £20 million from the flexible workforce development fund that I believe was spent in colleges in the most recent financial year. We are looking at a challenging budget, but will additional money be invested in colleges that we might not be seeing in the core budget? What can colleges expect in relation to that that will allow them to plan ahead? Mr Dornan has already spoken about how multiyear budgets would help with forward planning. Can the cabinet secretary assure us that we are coming back to colleges in what will be a challenging financial period?

That is very helpful. I mentioned the young persons guarantee because there is a quantifiable £10 million investment in that. More generally, it is clearly not just young people but those in the most-deprived areas who have the most fragile learning experiences and are the most likely to have been impacted by the pandemic more generally. Although I have follow-up questions on the young persons guarantee, I want to show an awareness of that.

I see from the papers that 2,438 students were recorded as having enrolled in the young persons guarantee and that 53.6 per cent of those were from the four most-deprived Scottish index of multiple deprivation deciles, with 18.2 per cent coming from the most-deprived decile. Are you comfortable with that balance? Should it be greater? Do you have some thoughts about that? Do we need more intensive funding? How would we follow the outcomes of that? If you were back at this committee next year and you said it was 2,438 students last year, how many would have entered in the following year? What would be the breakdown by SIMD and what would be the outcomes for those students? It would be very helpful to know that.

When I spoke to Derek Smeall, the principal of Glasgow Kelvin College, he was very sighted on the challenges that the sector faces, but it is well up on those challenges and is well placed to address them. I want to make sure that appropriate funding streams get to the colleges, to allow them to address the challenges.

The question is about how we monitor the outcomes for those 2,438 students, what number of students we anticipate being involved next year, any breakdown of outcomes and how the young persons guarantee is spread across the country, so we get beneath the figures and do some monitoring work as a committee.

Thank you. That would be very helpful. I have no further questions.

I am not sure who does the monitoring. The young persons guarantee is funded by the funding council. Is it the funding council that measures the outcomes?

Can I ask for that now rather than wait until next year? I think that the committee is interested in on-going monitoring of this rather than rehearsing this again next year. That is the point I was making. There was £10 million for the young persons guarantee. Would the funding council have use for additional funds for additional places next year, and would you be keen to see those targeted at the SIMD bottom 20 or 40 per cent? I am trying to find out what the funding council thinks about this instead of its just telling me the numbers.

I had better dig out my paper. You called me sooner than I expected, convener.

This is all good—it is really interesting. I will keep my powder dry until the private session, when I will give some thoughts on the apprenticeship levy, but that was an interesting exchange.

I want to turn to the role of colleges in helping to address the skills gap and align the training needs of business with education. I am interested in the funding council’s submission on the young persons guarantee, which states:

“SFC secured £10m from the fund in 2020-21 to work with colleges and universities to develop proposals to meet the aims of the fund. This collaboration resulted in a series of interventions, linked to key priority sectors, which included courses to increase the employability skills of those furthest from the job market”.

It is those funds from the labour market that I am interested in. I would like to know a bit more from the Scottish Funding Council about the colleges and the spending of that £10 million.

I met the principal of Glasgow Kelvin College the other day, and he told me that a lot of very short courses—sometimes of as little as 10 hours at a time, which are pre-employability intensive work with people furthest away from the labour market—have effectively disappeared during Covid and that colleges serving the most deprived parts of the country have major challenges ahead of them. In that context, I would like to know a lot more about the £10 million. How is that helping those furthest away from the labour market, and what is the role of colleges in that?

Depending on what I hear, I might have a couple of short supplementary questions on that theme. One of the representatives from the funding council is probably best placed to answer.