Chamber and committees

I have no further questions, convener. I thank Mr Brogan for making that point, because my experience has been that the annual reporting gets incredibly complex for the wider public. The reports are not very accessible, and all that people hear is that there are missed targets; they do not hear all the other positive things that are happening. Local authorities, public bodies and the private sector are saying that significant progress has been made, so Mr Brogan’s point is really important to put on the record.

Mr Brogan might have crystallised the issue. It is all about moving away from the question whether we are on track with our five-year carbon budgets because, ultimately, that issue will take care of itself when we report on them. Instead, we need to drill down much more carefully, because our milestones will be our specific sectoral targets for construction, for decarbonising heat networks, for transport and so on. We need to drill down into delivery for each of those sectors, and the Parliament can play much more of a role in scrutinising that as part of the climate change plan.

In the past, we have had this high-level stuff about whether we are meeting targets, but the fact is that we can meet targets and still not be on track, because we have not done the hard miles to do the things that have to be delivered, say, nine, 10 or 11 years out. We need to look much more at the sectoral milestones, which will involve the climate change plan, not the five-year carbon budgets. Have I got that right, Mr Brogan?

I will stick with the deputy convener’s line of questioning and flip my questions around. My first question, which again is probably for Cornilius Chikwama, is about how we monitor and report on all this. There have been concerns that the bill may lead to a dilution in the approach to reporting. My understanding is that, under the existing legislation, annual reporting mechanisms will endure despite the changes in the bill. The Climate Change Committee has suggested reporting twice within the five-year cycle. Has the Government got the balance right in the reporting mechanisms in the bill?

Before I bring in Jamie Brogan, do you want to add anything to that? I imagine that, if the bill is passed, Audit Scotland will have to do some monitoring on the issue. Taking into account what the deputy convener said about the need to be explicit on whether the Scottish Government’s progress has been blown off track because of, say, a shock to its capital budget as a result of decisions by Westminster or other unforeseen events, is Audit Scotland content with the provisions for reporting and monitoring mechanisms in the legislation as it stands?

What the committee may be establishing is that this is not about the five-year budgets but about getting the delivery plan in place and how we monitor that to hold Government and other agencies to account. We are considering enabling legislation, so I wanted to check that there is nothing inherent in the bill that would seek to dilute any commitment to a just transition or to climate justice.

Could that be mitigated by the annual reporting under proposed section 34A of the Climate Change (Scotland) Act 2009? If that reporting made explicit reference to how any of this has impacted on a just transition or climate justice, would that give a degree of reassurance? Should that provision be explicit that that is to be part of the annual reporting commitment?

I suppose that it is a question for the local authorities. I was trying to roll it all into one question—thank you for your generosity, convener, in allowing me back in. No one is aware of any challenges that non-alignment has caused Wales; it was important for the committee to hear that.

Do any of the local authorities have any issues such as the one that Glasgow has raised about

“differing sources of data to calculate emissions”

making it challenging to align the budgets? I have no idea whether that is robust evidence or not, but it is evidence that the committee has received. Have local authorities considered any challenges in relation to aligning with the five-year budgets at UK level?

I will make that point in private as well, convener.

Okay.

Thank you. I understand it now, convener.