Chamber and committees

I would like to look at accountability and performance reporting. Inevitably, I am drawn to IJBs when I look at that. I recall that, some years ago, the Auditor General produced a report on IJBs that were fairly substandard. Now I look at adult mental health services and again see deficiencies in the IJBs. There is a lack of public accountability for IJBs. The Scottish Government holds the NHS boards accountable, but the IJBs are responsible for planning, funding and overseeing the provision of the services. Operationally, they are managed by HSCPs. It seems to be odd to run those services without the national level of accountability that they should have.

The IJBs seem to be hidden someplace in the background, yet they are key to delivering services. Clearly, they are not getting it right. The report says that IJBs have to improve accountability arrangements. That will require everybody to work together to make that happen. How do we make IJBs more accountable and bring in better transparency in regard to their operations?

Hannah Axon, you are here, so I will ask you first.

I take on board what you say, but I am looking at the Auditor General’s report, and he has highlighted areas where there is a lack of accountability within IJBs. We are not saying that they are not doing a good job; we are just saying that we cannot see it. You may see it locally, but, on a national basis, we do not see it. What can be done about that?

You missed the best bit.

What has to change to make it better and to get proper accountability and performance reviews?

As plans to tackle climate change and a just transition become much clearer, which, to me, they are now, you then have to look at the other side of the coin, which is money. Nothing happens without money. If we cannot generate the capital to pay for what we want to do, we are in real trouble.

I have three questions that I will ask in one hit. I hear a lot about the huge amount of private finance that is available and that providers are keen to invest. I am not sure where that is coming from; that is less clear to me. Is it domestic UK or overseas capital? Will we be competing with North America, the EU and others for that resource? Private capital needs to make a return, and it is not going to invest in any project that will not give it a return. Discrete projects that are profitable may be sellable in terms of finance from private sources, but how do we access that? Do we have to access it through the London markets? Are we able to reach out ourselves and interest companies?

We are talking about huge sums of money here. We are talking about tens of billions of pounds. I see lots of different figures for the same projects, and those figures are all over the place. However, clearly, tens of billions will be needed. Where is it coming from? Is it international, or is it local? Do we have to go through the UK Government? How will it work?

Secondly, there are other projects that are clearly not profitable and never will be. Nevertheless, they need to be funded. The only entity that will step up and fund those projects is the state, and that means either the UK Government or the Scottish Government, both of which are strapped for cash. How do we get Government funds for those projects? The UK Government has already got problems selling its own paper, and hence various other means of raising money are being used. Borrowing costs are an issue, because, in international terms, the UK is now in the third tier for investment quality and Scotland, of course, is in the same position. Will people buy UK paper if it is issued? We are talking about tens of millions of pounds here. Can the market absorb that? I say tens of millions of pounds because I am assuming that a fair proportion of the projects that we will see coming forward will be projects that are not profitable; they will be things that need to be invested in to make other parts of the plan viable.

My third question is whether either Government can afford to borrow. There are two aspects: one is, of course, that the national debt is colossal. The proportion of national debt that we are having to pay off from our revenues is at an all-time high. What about our balance of payments? If Scotland or the UK borrow from overseas, we have to repay that capital at some point—we have to repay a return on the investment. Can we afford to do that? Has there been any costing for this? Basically, I am asking a big wrapped-up question about how we can finance what we need to do. Mark Munro, I will ask you to respond first because you are the obvious person to ask.

Japan is going into hydrogen in a big way for private cars.

Perhaps Ronan O’Hara can comment on them.

Are you saying that the major issue for capital coming in to fund those projects is the planning system?

What are the other ones?

Do we have time to bring in Fergus Mutch?