Chamber and committees

There are differing regions in Scotland—the north-east and elsewhere—so it is clear that, because there are so many different sectors, their just transitions will be slightly different, depending on their focus at the time.

However, I do not like to think that Scotland is working in isolation. There must be some good practices in other countries that we can take on board. Equally, we should be able to share what we are doing with other countries. There does not seem to be a mechanism to do that.

Okay.

From what you are saying, it seems that there is a bit of a worry that a lot of countries are not making a co-ordinated effort in heading to net zero and so forth.

Minister, you made reference to capacity in the money advice sector. If I interpret what you said correctly, the assumption is that the existing capacity is adequate to deal with any potential additional work arising from the new initiative. However, concerns have been expressed about the money advice sector having the capacity to deal with supporting people who want to access the mental health moratorium. In addition, I take on board what Richard Dennis said about the likely volumes and the experience that will be gained by individual money advice staff.

Will the Scottish Government provide the industry training and the additional funding that might be needed? Will the Government train all the money advisers who are needed, or will there be specialist money advisers who deal only with the mental health moratorium? In that case, capacity issues will immediately arise. For example, money advisers who operate in a specialised area might not be available locally. How will that be handled?

One of the major issues that I am circling round to is whether, when a person contacts a money adviser, there will be the option for a face-to-face discussion. If it becomes a specialised area with only a handful of real experts in the money advice sector, there will be a tendency for them to be focused in urban areas and so on, so people outside those areas might be expected to go online. All the members around this table deal with vulnerable people. I do not know about others, but I do not deal with any of them online. Online contact does not seem the right way to empathise with a person who has mental health issues, and take them through the process. The key question is: will face-to-face advice be available regardless? I suspect that most of it will have to be provided face to face.

I really—

In the previous session of Parliament, our predecessor committee carried out some scrutiny work that mainly covered the debt arrangement scheme. That revealed huge pressures within the money advice sector and the availability of advisers to assist and support people who were in financial difficulty. Clearly, the bill covers a highly specialised area. Providing assistance in that area is not something that will be easy or simple for a money adviser. They need training and expertise.

I think that the minister said there might be only three cases a year, and there was a question of whether that would give someone the level of experience that is needed to give the best support. Is it the intention that every money adviser will receive training or be authorised in some way to make the judgments that are necessary in relation to the mental health moratorium?

I will turn to the opening statement by Daria Shapovalova. It is interesting that you referred to what is happening in respect of the just transition in other countries. As has been discussed today, there is uncertainty in some areas about what “just transition” means to particular sectors. Have people overseas done better on defining “just transition”? Do they recognise a just transition? What about measurements? Have people elsewhere got in place anything that is basically better than what we are doing? Are there lessons that we can learn from them?

Jillian, I raised the fact that the way in which IJBs are constructed means that they do not have any direct national accountability, and the way in which they operate lacks transparency. That is not to say that they are not operating well locally. I am saying that it is not evident, and the Auditor General’s report reflects that. How do we fix that?

Do we have contact with Jillian?

It certainly seems as though the governance structure needs to be looked at. The problem is that service delivery varies in different areas of Scotland. How do we get a more consistent approach? There does not seem to be a consistent approach among IJBs. I am focusing on IJBs for my own particular purpose.