Chamber and committees

You have raised a very important issue. That was a challenge pre-pandemic, and it has certainly been a challenge because of the pandemic. That challenge has been accentuated because of the impact of Brexit on many areas. We are seeing vacancies and gaps in particular areas.

That is still up for consultation. The Feeley review of social care considered including adult services in a national care service, but there is a concern that having adult services in such a service and keeping children’s services separate would lead to more difficult transitions and challenges.

One of the areas on which we are genuinely keen to seek people’s views—I know that there will be different views on it—as we look to establish the national care service is how we get the best outcomes for children out of it, particularly with a view to transition. That is part of the consultation. The Government has not taken a view on it, as I hope Willie Rennie would expect, given the fact that the consultation is still live.

We will, of course, analyse the responses to that consultation. However, there is an understandable body of opinion that having adult services separate from children’s services would be detrimental to how the system operates. It is one body of opinion—there are others—but that is the position that we are considering at the moment.

I say with the greatest respect to Oliver Mundell that it would be utterly inappropriate for a politician of any colour to have direct control of qualification credits in the country. It is absolutely key that a qualifications agency is independent of Government. That allows the system to be credible and free of outside political interference. I do not intend to take over day-to-day control of the SQA.

Of course, the Government will absolutely ensure that we have a close working relationship with the SQA, as and when that is appropriate, to ensure that we have the working relationship that people would expect. I am sure that the committee would expect me to work closely with, and where appropriate challenge, the chief examiner on issues as we proceed. However, over the past year, the SQA has ensured that a fair and credible system was in place that allowed young people to receive their qualifications under the most difficult of circumstances.

I will be careful to maintain a close working relationship and to challenge where necessary. I do not think that, in my time in my remit so far, people could criticise me for not keeping a close eye on the SQA. I will continue to do that and ensure that the correct distinction is made so that the SQA is independent, as it has to be.

There are different funding streams in the attainment challenge. I will look at whether what you have suggested would be the most effective use of them. When I met various committee members at the start of my time as education secretary, they had different opinions on how these things might be done in future. I have listened to those comments, but I point out that a key part of the attainment challenge has been headteachers’ ability to make decisions directly, and that will remain.

On teacher numbers, the Government has committed to putting in place 3,500 additional teachers during this parliamentary session. As that commitment is separate and additional to the Scottish attainment challenge fund, it has not formed part of my discussions around the attainment challenge. Instead, it will go through the usual process of funding being distributed to local authorities.

If my memory serves me correctly, the answer to your written question also included teachers who might have been on a permanent contract but were in a temporary position. Some of those figures need to be used with caution.

That said, I have heard loud and clear, and directly from teachers, a concern about the number of them who are on temporary contracts, which is why I have taken action to baseline the funding that has been provided as part of our Covid recovery strategy. The money for the 3,500 additional teachers over this parliamentary session is additional to that. As I am sure that the committee would expect, I am keeping an exceptionally close eye on whether those teachers are additional and whether they are on permanent contracts. That is an issue for local government as the employer—I cannot insist that they are on permanent contracts—but what I would say is that, given that the money has been baselined, I see no reason for those teachers not to be on permanent contracts. However, as I have said, we are keeping an exceptionally close eye on that.

May I just make it clear that staff have the ability to have direct discussions with Ken Muir as part of his work? There is nothing stopping the unions having direct discussions with him. My understanding is that those discussions have happened already, so I do not need to interfere in that process, because there is nothing stopping them having those discussions.

I have listened very carefully to the discussions about what was said in the OECD report and what was said afterwards. We have to bear in mind the reasons for having national standardised assessments and what they can do and what they cannot and were never expected to do. The purpose of the national standardised assessments is primarily formative. They provide teachers with important and valuable diagnostic information on children’s progress. That is what they are there for.

The assessments were never designed to be the measure of everything in the curriculum for excellence. That is why other data is gathered within schools to support the national improvement framework. I have looked carefully at what the OECD said and at the information that was gathered for the review of the standardised assessments. We are seeing teachers making increased use of the results of the standardised assessments, and they have found those results more useful as the years have gone on.

We must look at what the assessments are for and whether teachers find them useful for what they were designed to do. We can see that teachers are finding them useful as part of formative assessment.

Forgive me, Mr Marra, but there are timings to when those reports will come out and data must be collated. I do not need the report to tell me that there has been an impact. That is why the Government has already acted to put in place additional teachers and additional pupil equity funding to support schools through Covid.

We have not waited and are already taking action. With the greatest respect, we cannot be both criticised for there being nothing new in a report about education recovery and told that we should not wait. We have not waited. We have already taken action. When further detail, such as the information about health and wellbeing or the data about curriculum for excellence levels comes out, we will self-check at that point.

There has clearly been concern about the timing of the report’s publication and the fact that it was the day after Fiona Robertson was here. I would like to make clear that the timing of publication was not the SQA’s decision. It had been hoped to publish the report earlier, which would have been before Ms Robertson’s committee appearance, and it was not the SQA’s decision to have the date that was finally settled on. That was for the commission to decide.

I agree that it is disappointing that the publication did not happen earlier, so that Ms Robertson could have discussed the issues with the committee. To be absolutely clear, that decision was not of the SQA’s making.

I heard that the First Minister answered an entirely different question from the one that you asked. I think that she misheard the question and answered a question about small businesses, so I came prepared for you to try again today.

The distribution for the £10 million has been agreed through Convention of Scottish Local Authorities leaders. Each local authority will receive an equitable share of the funding, on the strict understanding that it is for the purpose of improving ventilation. That includes covering the cost of monitors. The funding will be processed through the local government settlement. The capital element will be provided to local authorities as a one-off payment in November and the revenue element will be provided in March, as is the normal practice.

Local authorities have taken great strides to undertake their initial monitoring before the October holidays, which I stress are not all at the same time in Scotland. They are making good progress to allow that to happen. Some local authorities are reporting concerns about supply issues, which we always knew might be a challenge in some areas. We have been working closely with COSLA to give advice on procurement routes for quick supply and brokering discussions between local authorities to arrange the loan of mobile devices, if that is feasible when some councils are, perhaps, further ahead.

Once the October holidays have begun, we will collate the final position. I anticipate that we will provide a report later in October. That will allow an assessment of how the work has progressed. We will keep a close eye on what happens after October once the initial monitoring has taken place.