Chamber and committees

Welcome to the committee, cabinet secretary. You have mentioned some of the new constraints that are being put on this Parliament by UK legislation such as the 2020 act. What are the Scottish Government’s options for engagement and for putting its views across? At the moment, we have a number of inadequate mechanisms such as joint ministerial committees. How do you intend to use them to make your point?

I am not sure that they will be very localised, but they are on a subject that you will no doubt have heard me go on about before.

Cabinet secretary, you have talked with great enthusiasm, quite rightly, about the production of culture. I was interested to hear your views on the consumption of culture, in the sense of people’s access to and enjoyment of it. I am particularly interested in a subject that I have raised before. There is a body of Scottish literature that exists out there but, as academics and others point out, people in Scotland, compared with people in most other European countries, seem to have an abnormally small opportunity—although things are getting better—to get immersed in books, both old and new, that are produced in Scotland. I appreciate that you are not the education minister, but it would be interesting to hear your views about the promotion of Scottish literature.

Clearly, you will enjoy joint ministerial committees when you get an invitation to one. It sounds like you have worked out the format.

In your introductory remarks, you raised a point about some of the history behind what we are talking about. One of the reasons—it is not the only reason—that this Parliament is in existence is to ensure that decisions about spending and what we now understand to be devolved areas are made by this place and not by anyone else. What do you make of comments from Scotland Office ministers that, because they do not like policies in certain devolved areas, they might want to bypass that? There is a suggestion that spending decisions in areas that might be considered to be devolved might be better made by them or other UK ministers rather than by ministers here. How can the Scottish Government engage with UK ministers in a way that makes it quite clear that that should not happen?

My other question is about the labour shortages that Brexit and other issues have caused, which witnesses have mentioned a number of times already.

James Withers recently wrote to the Home Secretary and others, saying:

“Both Brexit and the pandemic have accelerated existing pressures on labour availability. We have now reached crisis point putting the growth, viability and security of many Scottish businesses in jeopardy, with knock on impacts for consumers. We need action now to save Christmas.”

Without being unduly alarmist, will you explain what you mean about the risks that your industry faces when it comes to Christmas and some of the issues that you face as a result of labour shortages more generally?

We have heard about some of the difficulties that exist. There is a difficulty that we have heard about post-Brexit. In the past, we have looked at difficulties in exporting. Concerns about certification changes coming up in importing food and what they mean for us have arisen lately. Will any of the witnesses—I do not know whether that will be James Withers, Geoff Ogle or somebody else—comment on the issues that have been raised about that, please?

My question relates to some issues about the supply chain that came up in the session with the previous panel. Are you noticing some of the same or analogous problems with changes to the certification of imports that you have experienced with exports since Brexit? The question is about the impact on your businesses when it comes to the changes that are expected some time between October and January in the certification of imports.

My other question relates to Europe and the supply chain. The labour shortages that you and the previous panel have described are occurring at the very time when we are trying to rebuild the economy post Covid. One of the witnesses on the previous panel made a case for what he called Covid recovery visas. Do you think that there is a need for the UK Government to intervene with some kind of emergency measure of that kind to release some of the current strain on the labour supply?

I have nothing in particular to report, but I refer people to my entry in the register of members’ interests.

I, too, congratulate both the convener and the new deputy convener.

Patrick Harvie, in particular, covered some of the constitutional issues. We are obviously going to have to look at a referendum bill. On the point that he made about intergovernmental relations, I have served on—or endured being on—a joint ministerial committee, and I think that the committee, regardless of our differing perspectives on the constitution, has to own up to the fact that the joint ministerial committees are not an effective mechanism for conversation between our Governments. We should start to look at what the alternatives might be and see whether we can come to a consensus about that.

We will obviously look at the Brexit legacy and the implications for the devolution settlement, including questions in the wake of Brexit on things such as UK spending in what might in the past have been considered to be devolved areas, and trade deals.

Donald Cameron made the good point that we need to be careful that we do not tread too far into the work of other committees, but a number of things in our remit and in the legacy papers will probably involve our having to find a modus vivendi with other committees. It is difficult to see how we could talk about culture without talking about its place in schools or about Brexit without talking about agriculture. There is a bit of work to be done before we get started on how we can establish good relations with other committees in order to ensure that we can do that work.

International development is another area that I have been involved in. We will scrutinise what the Scottish Government does on that, but it must be seen both in the context of Covid and in the wider context—I am sorry to be political so early on—of a UK Government that seems to be withdrawing from some of its commitments in the area. That has implications for the setting of Scotland’s relatively modest but important international development work. There is also a specific job of work to be done in not just celebrating but looking at our particular relationship with Malawi.

I have no particular interests to declare, but I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests.