Chamber and committees

Thank you for being here again, cabinet secretary. As I am sure that you will have heard if you were listening in, we have heard a lot this morning about the issues that such matters give rise to about the rule of law. Experts have told us their view on that from a legal point of view, but from the point of view of other European countries where the rule of law and constitutions and so forth are taken seriously, what does the current situation do for the UK’s reputation among them?

I will keep it to a couple of brief questions in that case.

I know that this is returning to a theme, but I want to ask about the relation between UK ministers and the Scottish Parliament that could or will emerge from the bill. We have talked a bit about Henry VIII powers and the implications for this Parliament. Thankfully, Henry VIII never had the opportunity to legislate in Scotland. Nonetheless, there is the combination of the Henry VIII powers and other provisions in the bill, together with the decline of the Sewel convention, which has been alluded to. What is the effect of that combination of things? I know that Sir Jonathan Jones mentioned a range of unfortunate precedents, or words to that effect. How does the bill combine with the fact that, arguably at least, there is a decline in the Scottish Parliament’s ability to rely on the Sewel convention?

I think that we may still be on the third point there, but I am not sure.

I noticed, Sir Jonathan, that you referred to—I was going to say “the excuse” but let me put it more neutrally—the reason that the UK Government has given for proposing to breach international law. I do not want to put words into your mouth but I think that you said the Government cited the grave threat or the emergency situation, or something like that. As much as public life in the UK at the moment does feel like an on-going emergency, I wonder what the threshold is in terms of precedent, if any, for such an extraordinary act as to propose to legislate to breach international law and whether you find the reasons offered to be convincing.

I put the same question to Dr Fox. What is the cumulative impact of the bill when it is taken together with other developments such as the changes to our understanding of the Sewel convention?

Excuse me for that interruption—I believe that my sneezes are a source of renewable energy.

Elaine Whyte briefly touched on the issue of visas. I am curious to know whether you or anyone else wants to say a little bit more about that, given the workforce pressures that fishing faces and the difficulties that I know from my constituency experience are associated with not easily being able to obtain visas for people from outside the European Union in particular.

I am Alasdair Allan, MSP for Na h-Eileanan an Iar.

I hesitate to list the pressures that the fishing industry might feel under. Obviously, some pressures are the result of deliberate policy around Brexit, but I am quite sure that others have been brought to us more recently. Those of us who represent fishing constituencies are well aware of fuel costs, labour shortages and issues with visas. Rather than put any more words in your mouths, do people want to say something about the pressures that exist in the fishing industry during this time that we are living through?

I will resist the temptation to talk about a specific building, cabinet secretary, as we have already corresponded on it.

On the issues that you are raising with regard to Historic Environment Scotland, what is your expectation of the extent to which those communities to whom historic buildings that might not be open are still important should be involved and kept aware of what is going on?

My other question is about a subject that we have touched on regularly in the committee and which you have just alluded to, Mr Munro. I will address the question to Councillor Heddle and Mr Booth. On wellbeing, some of you have mentioned the issue of warm spaces. I do not pretend that the function of culture, as practised or promoted by local government or other agencies, is simply to provide warm spaces. However, you have acknowledged the pressure that you will face to provide such facilities. Will both of you say a bit more about how that will be worked into what you do?

Iain Munro, you have reflected on some of the budget pressures that the whole public sector undoubtedly faces. However, it should also be noted that the Scottish Government has seen £1.7 billion disappear out of its budget as a result of inflation.

I do not want to take away from the pressures that you have described, but I am curious to know whether you think that there is anything to be learned from the experience of the pandemic. You rightly say that the situation now is very different and that the pressures are perhaps even greater, but I think that the committee has had some evidence or comment that, during the pandemic, Creative Scotland went to some length to streamline its application process. I realise that we cannot make direct comparisons, but can anything be learned from the experience of the pandemic in dealing with the current inflationary emergency?