Chamber and committees

My last question is for Adam Gillies, but first I must thank everyone for taking part this morning. In a few weeks, we will have the minister in. What is the key thing that you think we have to tell him, as the Scottish Government’s representative, about Grangemouth’s future and what needs to happen there?

The witnesses have very generously given us more time than we anticipated, but there are a couple of members left who have questions, so I will hand over to Fiona Hyslop.

Good morning, and welcome to the seventh meeting in 2023 of the Economy and Fair Work Committee.

The first item of business is a decision to take in private item 3, which will be a discussion of the evidence that we hear this morning, and all future discussions of evidence heard as part of the inquiry. Are committee members agreed?

Members indicated agreement.

Our next item of business is the third evidence session of our inquiry into a just transition for the Grangemouth area. Today’s evidence session will focus on the partnership working that is needed to facilitate a just transition. I welcome Malcolm Bennie, who is director of place services with Falkirk Council; Adam Gillies, who is from Grangemouth community council; and Diarmaid Lawlor, who is associate director of place with the Scottish Futures Trust.

As always, it will be helpful if members and witnesses keep their questions and answers as concise as possible.

I will let all three witnesses address this question, but I will come to you first, Malcolm. We are looking at a just transition for the Grangemouth area, but there is still some debate about what “just transition” means. What is the working interpretation that is being used for the Grangemouth area, and do people have an understanding of what people are trying to achieve?

I will come back to Malcolm Bennie. We have been looking at the Grangemouth future industry board. Are you involved in the board?

That is helpful—thank you.

If he is brief.

That is great. I thank all the witnesses for all the time that they have given us this morning, and we will now move into private session.

I find it interesting where the conversation has ended up. During the evidence sessions, I have found myself reflecting on the phrase “just transition for Grangemouth” that we have been talking about and how it suggests a shift from somewhere that is already positive and viable. I know that what we are talking about here is the industrial complex making the shift to net zero, but as we have heard from Adam Gillies and as his submission shows—indeed, Malcolm Bennie talked about this, too—there are high levels of poor health and low employment in the area. In some ways, Grangemouth is still living with the consequences of its industrial heritage from longer ago.

I was just thinking about the draft plan that the Government is putting together and which we are expecting towards the end of spring. Malcolm Bennie was, I think, heading in this direction when he talked about the need to think about not just the industrial base but the broader community; in some ways, such an approach starts from a completely different place from the industrial base, with different challenges being faced. I suppose that it all comes back to one’s interpretation of “just transition”. Do you think that the Government’s draft plan will take a broader view, and do you think that that is something that the committee should be emphasising to the minister?

We move to questions, and I will start with a question for Pat Rafferty or Cliff Bowen from Unite.

The committee is looking at a just transition, and there is some debate around definitions of a just transition. What do you understand a just transition to mean? Particularly in relation to Grangemouth, is it principally about the plan or the wider economy? The Government is about to publish its draft plan for Grangemouth; it is due out in the spring. Do we have a shared understanding of what a just transition will look like?