Chamber and committees

Thank you, Angela. I come to Vikki Manson, who is here from the Federation of Small Businesses Scotland. Vikki, is there anything additional that you would say about employers’ experience? You represent small and medium-sized enterprises in Scotland, and, in your written submission, you said that some 20 per cent of

“small business owners are disabled or have a health condition”

and that SMEs are

“more likely to employ disabled people than larger businesses”.

Will you talk us through anything additional around barriers and about the reasons for the higher percentage of disabled people in SMEs than in larger businesses?

Good morning, and welcome to the 14th meeting in 2024 of the Economy and Fair Work Committee. I have received apologies from Colin Smyth.

Our first item of business is the second evidence session of the committee’s inquiry into the disability employment gap in Scotland. This morning, we will focus on employers and the support that they need in order to make workplaces and recruitment practices more inclusive.

I welcome Heather Fisken, who is the chief executive of Inclusion Scotland; Vikki Manson, who is deputy head of policy at the Federation of Small Businesses Scotland; Angela Matthews, who is the head of policy and research at the Business Disability Forum; and Chirsty McFadyen, who is the knowledge exchange associate at the Fraser of Allander Institute.

As always, it would be helpful if members and witnesses could keep their questions and answers as concise as possible.

I will come first to Chirsty McFadyen with a question that I will put in some form to all the witnesses this morning. Could you talk briefly about the barriers that disabled people face in accessing and retaining employment and about where progress has been made? We are interested in examples of where and how progress is being made. What works?

Thank you. I come to Angela Matthews, who is here from the Business Disability Forum. Angela, in our papers it says that you recently carried out a survey with employers and employees. Will you talk us through that a bit and talk about the barriers and challenges that were found through that?

Thank you, Heather. Just before I bring in Brian Whittle, I want to raise an issue that was highlighted by last week’s panel that you might want to comment on. We are picking up that there is a significant pay gap for people with disabilities.

Moreover, what do you think the appropriate balance should be between voluntary and paid work? Do you feel that, as far as disabled people are concerned, there is not an expectation that their work would be paid? Is there instead an expectation that their work is voluntary? I do not know whether you want to comment on those two things.

Yes.

This will definitely be the final question. At last week’s meeting, we heard from local authorities that they record disability data in a framework database that the Scottish Government has established. I cannot remember the name of it right now, but do you know whether employers also feed into that?

Has there been anything recently that has improved the offer that you make? One thing that we are thinking about is whether the Government understands where it needs to do more. Is it introducing the right policy measures in order to address those challenges?

Our next item of business is the first evidence session of the committee’s inquiry into the disability employment gap in Scotland. The committee undertook some initial work in the area last year, as part of which we visited Enable and Dovetail Enterprises in Dundee and the National Autistic Society in Glasgow. This month, the committee welcomed young people and staff from The Usual Place in Dumfries and we visited the Giraffe cafe and Push reuse centre in Perth on Monday to hear directly from disabled people about their experiences of accessing the labour market. I thank all those we have met so far for giving up their time and giving us the benefit of their experience as we begin our inquiry.

This morning we will hear evidence from two witness panels, focusing on employability services for disabled people. I welcome Elizabeth Baird, who is joining us online, representing the Inverclyde local employability partnership; Dave McCallum, head of career information advice and guidance operations with Skills Development Scotland; Philip Ritchie, representing the Edinburgh local employability partnership; and Alasdair Scott, representing the Scottish Borders local employability partnership. Thank you all for attending this morning. If members and witnesses can keep their questions and answers focused, we will make good progress.

I have a broad opening question and I will come to Elizabeth Baird first. What progress has been made to reduce the barriers that disabled people face when accessing and retaining mainstream employment in Scotland? We have a commitment from the Government to close the disability employment gap and part of our inquiry will scrutinise whether we are on track to do that. Could I have your reflections on what progress has been made?

Are there particular groups of people who are not making progress as quickly?

You described the service as being inclusive and bespoke. When it comes to supporting people with disabilities, how does your organisation make sure that it can provide support for everybody who comes in, regardless of what disability they have? Is that more done through working with partners than just yourself?