Chamber and committees

Your buildings are as old as me.

Andrew, what I am trying to say is that these things can be experienced by young people and learners in other areas. You might have, say, a sports team going on tour, having to fundraise for that and so on, and there will be an overnight element to that, too. I probably remember those kinds of sporting endeavours and overnight stays with teams more than my time in Ardentinny as a kid. I know that the world has changed quite a lot since I was that age, but surely there is an argument to be made that it is not just this type of outdoor experience or residential stay that makes that difference in young people’s lives. Other people are motivated by other things.

I am glad that you are telling me that it is more than just kayaking, bows and arrows and running about the place, because that was what we heard from two individuals in particular at last week’s evidence-gathering session, which made it sound like practices had not changed since the days that I was there. Unlike Pam Duncan-Glancy, that does not feel to me like that was yesterday.

I think that Nick March said there is a difference between outdoor education and outdoor recreation. I am interested to find out more about that. How do you make that distinction? You have already said that the highest capacity of beds are for recreational purposes. How many young people are getting access to outdoor education, and how do you package that for the individual and the group at the same time? That is quite a lot to respond to.

Freda Fallon, you have been talking at length about what you do when you know that someone is coming to you—you go to the school and work out a programme. Does that happen for every child? That could be quite challenging. It would be like piecing together a jigsaw. You might have children who have an additional support need—or more than one, nowadays—while ensuring that you cater for the whole class or group. How do you manage to do that? How practical is it to do that for just about every pupil who is getting involved?

That kind of comes across, Freda. [Laughter.]

Jamie Miller, everyone has said that the capital spend could be the thing that either makes or breaks a centre. Your buildings are older. How would you deal with the capacity that will end up on your doorstep should the bill be passed? That would be a challenge for you.

Phil Thompson, do you have similar issues?

Everyone has spoken about their individual experiences. I remember going to scout camps in, I think, Ardentinny—it was almost a rite of passage when I was at school. I do not remember any life-changing experiences, but I was a pretty stroppy and cynical teen—thank goodness I have grown up and matured a bit since then. [Laughter.] I knew that I would get that response; that is why I said it.

Professor Mannion, could you expand on what you said about the position of residential outdoor education in relation to approaches to outdoor learning? How does that include learning for sustainability? You have already outlined some of that, but I would be interested in hearing a bit more detail.

I have a quick supplementary on the back of Pam Duncan-Glancy’s question. In such discussions, we inevitably talk about personal experience, but I want to take it to the next level, because I have a granddaughter who is neurodivergent. She is nine years old, and she struggles at school. What if you end up with a whole stack of young children who are neurodivergent?

As a family, we find it difficult to ensure that she is even wearing clothes when she goes out, because she does not like the feel of them, and she can make family get-togethers and excursions quite difficult. How do you deal with that in a residential setting, when you might have four or five children who are like that? How do you deal with that challenge and ensure that they get such opportunities? After all, if there are any children who need these kinds of opportunities, it is this group of young people.

Young people’s engagement is also important. We know that young people are extremely interested in many of the issues that you have mentioned, so if we want them to engage with education, we should include the issues that they want to work on. We have moved on from the time of sliding down a zip wire or going canoeing.