Chamber and committees

Thank you, Mr Morrison; that is helpful.

I have a slightly different question for Donald Macaskill. When you talked earlier about issues in the care sector, you specifically referenced workforce issues. I have spoken to people in the care sector who say that one of the major issues has been the number of experienced and qualified staff who are leaving the care sector to get jobs in other sectors, such as retail, because the pay and conditions are better. I am interested to understand from you how much of an issue that is. If it is an issue, what needs to be done to fix it? How do we ensure that pay and conditions in the care sector improve and that people do not leave to get jobs elsewhere?

Thank you, Dr Macaskill. You talk about the increase in the base salary to £10.02. Do you have a sense of what level it should be at in order to ensure that we do not face the issue that you have been talking about of staff haemorrhaging out of the sector?

I thought that you were taking them together—I apologise.

I will start again. I do not question the intention of the Government in bringing in the vaccination certification scheme, but we are yet to hear evidence of its positive impacts. We have significant evidence of its negative impacts, including from the Scottish Human Rights Commission and those concerned about civil liberties, and we have heard about the negative economic impacts.

If the Scottish Government were to go down the route of offering the alternative that is offered in Wales and every other European country that has brought in a certification scheme, which is to produce a negative Covid test, we would be more sympathetic, but we cannot support the scheme as it stands.

We have heard in evidence and from our adviser this morning that every other country in Europe that has brought in a vaccination passport scheme allows, as an alternative, a negative Covid test. That gets round some of the concerns that people have expressed about the vaccination passport scheme—in particular, the impact on human rights and civil liberties. Previously, the health secretary told the committee that that alternative was still under consideration by the Scottish Government. Is it still being considered as part of the mix? I believe that it would remove many of the concerns about the compulsory vaccination passport scheme.

My question is about issues in schools. I have received a number of complaints from teachers. In most of the schools that I am aware of, ventilation is provided only by opening windows. That might be fine in the summer, but it creates for teaching staff and pupils an increasingly uncomfortable environment at this time of year. In many schools, the radiators are close to or under the windows, so the heating is on full blast but most of the heat is going straight out the window. That is bad for the climate and bad for school heating bills.

The First Minister said in the summer that she was providing local authorities with an additional £10 million to support enhanced ventilation in schools. Does anyone have a sense of the likely overall cost of fitting adequate ventilation in schools? If that money was available, how, practically, could the work be done and what would the timescale be? I presume that it would take not months but years to bring every school in Scotland up to an adequate standard.

You have given us your opinion and belief that the scheme is having a positive impact, but you have not given us any evidence of that. In fact, you said in your letter of 28 October to us:

“it is not possible to establish the individual impact of this scheme on changes in transmission of the virus.”

As I said earlier, Professor Leitch told the committee last week that he did not know whether it was encouraging uptake. You have expressed your opinion to the committee, but you have given us no evidence.

To go back to the letter of 28 October, I note that we specifically asked whether you could give us any information on the

“Number of people who have reported difficulties in accessing the COVID status app; their QR code; or paper copies”,

and you said, “Data is not available.” We asked whether you could tell us the

“Number of people who have reported inaccuracies with the information contained in their vaccination record”,

and you said:

“Data is not currently available.”

However, the BBC has been able to obtain the information through a freedom of information request that 42,000 people have complained about inaccuracies. How has the BBC been able to obtain information that you were not able to give the committee?

I will comment briefly. I do not doubt the intention of the Scottish Government in seeking to bring in the Covid certification scheme, but we still have not heard compelling evidence that it has value, despite the assertions that we have heard from the Deputy First Minister. We have, however, had significant evidence—

Good morning, cabinet secretary and colleagues. I return to the matter of the vaccination certification scheme, which the convener touched on in her first question. One of the purposes of that scheme, as set out by the Scottish Government, is to encourage an increase in the uptake of vaccinations. In last week’s committee meeting, Mr Mason asked Professor Leitch whether there was evidence that that had been successful. Mr Leitch gave a straightforward and honest response, as we would, of course, expect. He said:

“I simply do not know”.—[Official Report, COVID-19 Recovery Committee, 28 October 2021; c 21.]

Indeed, you have confirmed this morning, cabinet secretary, that it is not possible to disaggregate from the general data whether the scheme is actually delivering on the objective that was set out. We do not know whether there are positive outcomes from the scheme.

What we do know, however, is that there are negative outcomes. For example, according to the BBC this morning, more than 42,000 people have reported errors in their vaccination records, which is causing difficulties for them in accessing vaccination certification, and we know that the night-time industries have seen a major drop of 40 per cent in business at their premises, which is having a major negative economic impact. That policy is turning into something of a disaster, is it not?

I want to ask again about the issue of economic impact. We have heard from the Night Time Industries Association and the Scottish hospitality group about a major decline in business at many of their premises since the vaccination passport was introduced. Does the Scottish Government recognise that concern and, if so, what are you doing to try to address it?