Chamber and committees

We will be taking forward a piece of work to look at how we can better manage where scarcity issues arise. We have the framework in place, but we will consider whether there are ways that we can better manage that.

One of the issues that we want to look at is whether abstractors could be more efficient in their use of abstraction from river basins. I will give an example. A soft fruit business will probably have a trickle system, whereas a vegetable business will need a much greater quantity of water. The type of soil might require that they do that to a routine. I might be wrong, but I think that the volumes that they bring works to a cycle.

Soft fruit operators are much more efficient in how they use water abstraction than some other operators are. One of the areas that SEPA wants to look at is whether there are ways in which we could become much more efficient, including whether there is a better way in which we could manage the abstraction process when levels start to reduce to a slightly lower level.

On the transferring of water, I am not sure about the technical aspects of that or about whether SEPA would have to consider issues around the environmental impact of that. We are taking forward working to ensure that, when levels drop to certain levels, we are getting greater efficiency from abstraction and looking to minimise the amount that abstractors have to take at particular points.

You might be aware that I visited Montrose last year when we were publishing our coastal erosion plan. You cannot take a one-size-fits-all approach. We now have much better data and understanding of where coastal erosion is taking place in Scotland. As part of the plan, we published a map of coastal erosion, so that we know where the particular challenges are. Montrose is a clear example of that. Some of the measures that have been put in there previously have had a positive impact; some have not been so positive.

You cannot take a one-size-fits-all approach in tackling coastal erosion. It must be based on what the local circumstances are and what the local environment is like. Some of the work around the coastal erosion planning was to make sure that we were taking a bespoke approach to how we meet some of those challenges.

Good morning and thank you for your invitation to the committee today.

This inquiry has been invaluable in exploring the complex nature of the decarbonisation challenge across all 32 of Scotland’s local authorities, and I am very grateful for the evidence that has been provided to the committee from a range of stakeholders over the course of recent months. This is also the second day of Scotland’s climate week 2022, which is an annual initiative to celebrate Scotland’s action and the progress that we are making in the climate emergency. I want to start by acknowledging the vital role of local government in the transition to net zero and the significant progress that councils have already made in moving towards achieving net zero.

I am encouraged to see that end-user emissions fell significantly across all Scottish local authorities between 2005 and 2020, with an overall drop of some 10.6 per cent between 2019 and 2020. Two Scottish local authorities exhibited the largest reductions in emissions among all United Kingdom local authorities between those years. West Dunbartonshire Council showed a 28 per cent reduction and Highland Council a reduction of some 24 per cent.

While good progress has been made to date, I recognise that there is still a very long way to go. Throughout the inquiry, you have heard about the interlinked role that local government has with cross-sectoral partners and the Scottish Government in driving forward our journey to becoming a net zero nation. All the challenges that have been highlighted during the inquiry are made all the more acute during the present cost crisis. Our priorities remain, however, and you can be assured that the Scottish Government is absolutely committed to being a steadfast partner with local government in tackling the global climate emergency.

In recognising the capacity challenges of getting projects off the ground, the Scottish Government is working with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities to explore additional support to help local authorities develop their pipeline of low carbon projects. Later this year we will set out our energy strategy and just transition plan, which will provide a road map for the energy sector’s role in achieving our emissions reduction targets and securing a net zero energy system for Scotland. We have also allocated £194 million this year to help to reduce energy bills and climate emissions through our warmer homes Scotland area-based schemes and Home Energy Scotland.

Those are just a few of the key examples of how we are working with local government to address the crucial issues raised throughout the inquiry. However, as you know, we must work together to do more to meet our climate targets and avert further irreversible damage. I am happy to respond to any questions that the committee may have.

I find that the challenge at times is that there can be an expectation that tackling climate change is someone else’s responsibility and that “someone else will do it for me”. I have always emphasised that we all have to take individual responsibility and collectively we will achieve these targets. It is about making sure that we utilise the input that we get from things like the citizens assemblies and the process that we go through there. That input should help to formulate our thinking and our planning and policies so that people can see that there is clear cause and effect from engaging in the process. If we are to achieve the big behaviour change that is necessary, people need to feel as though they are part of that and that they have a responsibility, so individual responsibility and the role that individuals play is important in achieving net zero.

The work on our energy strategy refresh and just transition plan has already started and will be published by the end of this year. Some of the documentation and consultation processes have already started to be put in place, and the draft strategy will be published by the end of this year. We have already had engagement with some stakeholders to help to shape that work.

It will be a whole-system approach, looking at every aspect of the system over the years ahead and how we can maximise economic benefits to Scotland in delivering energy decarbonisation. Of course, there will also be the first of our just transition plans, which will be energy specific and will sit alongside the strategy. Engagement work on that has already started with key stakeholders to inform the process.

The current energy price crisis predates the illegal invasion of Ukraine. It began when the economy started opening up last year, when demand increased to a level that started to push up wholesale gas prices internationally. The issue intensified and became even more acute with the illegal invasion of and war in Ukraine. The reality is that, given the way in which wholesale gas prices are set, there is very little that any individual country can do to offset the issue by increasing its gas output.

As things stand, the North Sea Transition Authority says that everything in the North Sea is at capacity—there is nothing spare. To bring anything online will take years. Will it have an impact on wholesale gas prices? No, because the wholesale gas price is set at international level. While the market remains tight and demand remains high, the issue will continue, no matter what. We do not have sufficient supplies to alter the situation—that view is widely held and recognised as being the case.

How do we reduce dependency on fossil fuels such as gas? How do we reduce the risk in that regard, given the international forces that set the price? The way to do that is to decarbonise at a faster rate, and that is about rolling out renewables much more quickly and reducing our dependency on fuels for which the price is set at an international level. Making ourselves more dependent on renewable energy will help to give us energy security and to reduce the cost, because it is a cheaper form of energy production.

I agree with the view of the then UK Government energy secretary, Kwasi Kwarteng, who is now the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who said that the answer is faster decarbonisation of our energy system. That remains the case, and that is the way to address the issue.

On the reserved issues and the announcement of a new licensing round for offshore oil and gas in the UK sector, my challenge—the UK Government disputes this—is that, although the measure is presented as being necessary to address energy security and high energy prices, it will not have an impact on either of those, because of the timeline. The Climate Change Committee has said that the average time that it takes to go from an exploration licence to a production licence is about 28 years, so that approach will not help with energy costs now or in the near future. At the same time, it is producing a form of energy where the price is set at an international level.

Therefore, faster decarbonisation is the answer, and the quickest way to do that is through renewables. Onshore and offshore wind is the fastest way to deploy renewable generation across the UK and across Europe as a whole. Scotland is blessed by having some fantastic natural resources to be able to do that, to help to decarbonise not just Scotland and the rest of the UK but potentially other parts of Europe, through the export opportunities.

There needs to be a clearer focus on the ramping up and roll-out of renewable energy as the way to tackle the cost of energy and to deliver energy security in future.

We will be happy to come back to the committee to give you some more specifics on the timeframe.

I will have to come back to the committee on the specific timescale. I do not have that to hand.

I recognise the challenges that some people in our fishing communities face. Marine protected areas, highly protected marine areas, renewables and offshore oil and gas all impact on fishing communities and fishing grounds, which is in addition to the challenges that they have around accessing certain fish. It is important that, as we move forward with the development of the marine plan, we fully engage them in that process. You will recognise that we must manage a lot of competing interests, but their concerns and the issues that they have must be a central part of our consideration.

I will ask David Pratt to say a bit more about how we will take forward the marine plan, but there is no doubt in my mind that we must ensure that our fishing communities are a key part of how we consult and engage in that process, given the many competing challenges that we face in our marine sector.

As part of climate adaptation, there is a need for better planning and management around flooding. We can see that that is increasingly becoming a challenge for some local authority areas. Part of the challenge to date is that flood management has often been focused on a particular flooding event. A key part of what we are looking to do with the revision of the strategy—or with the plan around the strategy—is to take a much more holistic approach in dealing with flood management, so that we look at the wider issues that impact on and cause flooding, rather than just at individual instances and events. That is why we are taking this piece of work forward, which will be in partnership with local authorities and other stakeholders, including the Scottish Environment Protection Agency, which all have a part to play in tackling that increasing problem.

The other part to this is how flooding occurs. There are now many more localised intense weather events that last short periods. Those events often overwhelm the existing flood management infrastructure. That is why we must look at some of the wider measures that need to be put in place around that. We intend to achieve that through our work on how we can better develop flood planning with stakeholders.

One of the aspects of this is to try to pool proposals that some small local authorities may have that would not be attractive to private sector investors on their own, where several local authorities might be looking at doing something. Take, for example, somewhere like Forth Valley, with Falkirk Council probably trying to do something on its own but possibly working in partnership with Stirling and Clackmannanshire Councils and maybe West Lothian Council as well. Bringing together collective proposals is one of the mechanisms to try to help it work better for smaller local authorities.

Even for some of our big local authorities, operating on their own for the scale of investment that they are looking for is probably not viable. Some will probably have to think about working in partnership with other big local authorities to get the scale that some private sector investors are looking for.

I will need to take de-risking away. Finance colleagues lead on this matter. I am more than happy to take that away to look at what we are doing to try to help to de-risk some of the challenges. I know about some of the work that the Scottish Futures Trust is doing to try to de-risk EV charging for local authorities and the private sector investment in that, but I am more than happy to take away the issue about reducing the risk. On your other question about local authority propositions that are in the GIP, I am more than happy to take that away and come back with some details on what propositions are there.